Ep 169: The Self, Parts and the Highway of Life
Beautiful illustration by Ferzan Gülseren
Why do we react in ways that seem counterproductive or self-defeating? Are our minds made up of distinct "parts" that influence our behavior? How can we understand and integrate these internal parts to create personal growth and harmony?
In this episode, Effy and Jacqueline explore “parts work” and share their personal therapeutic journeys understanding, regulating, and befriending their parts. They discuss the benefits of developing "parts" from past experiences to help us navigate and respond to the world around us, and the consequences of using the outdated strategies of our parts to address current relationship fears.
Referenced in the episode:
Episode 115: Integrity, the Rider and the Elephant
Book: The Body Keeps Score
Be a part of our Halloween episode!
Listen to Episode 89: Haunted House of Relationships Fears, and then pick a fear that you have when it comes to love, sex or relationships and see if you can design your own scary haunted house room. Once you are done, get out your voice memo app on your phone and tell us all about it by sending it to listening@wearecuriousfoxes.com.
Connect with us on IG and more:
Curious Fox @wearecuriousfoxes
Effy Blue @coacheffyblue
Jacqueline Misla @jacquelinemisla
Email us or send a voice memo: listening@wearecuriousfoxes.com
Join the conversation: fb.com/WeAreCuriousFoxes
TRANSCRIPT:
Welcome to the curious Fox podcast for those challenging the status quo and love, sex and relationships. My name is Effy Blue.
Jacqueline
And I'm Jacqueline Misla. And today, we're talking about the most important relationship of all the relationship with ourselves. In particular, in this conversation, we're focusing on parts work most commonly used in internal family systems therapy.
Effy
parts work, including internal Family Systems is a type of therapy that acknowledges that there are different parts within us with sometimes conflicting agendas, and addresses the impact of these inner conflicts when it comes to our emotional healing. For example, I feel confident and competent when it comes to my communication skills. Yet, there is a part of me that heavily avoids conflict or difficult conversations. She believes that conflict will always end and disaster and can't imagine a resolution of any sort, unchecked and unloved. That part can get in the way of me resolving issues, which can look like me ignoring some people I love.
Jacqueline
This is something that I am currently exploring in therapy, and work that Fe has been engaged in for years,
Effy
we should know that we're not therapist. So this is from an angle of how it helped us with our own healing.
Jacqueline
It's a topic that Fe and I talk a lot about offline, as we are trying to understand and embrace all of ourselves. And so we wanted to open up the conversation to share our personal experience and lessons learned after years of and ongoing therapy. We're gonna take a quick break, and when we get back, we're going to talk about how we develop different parts, how those parts can create chaos, and what we have done to create some integration and internal connection.
Effy
Hey, Foxy Friends, it's time for some audience participation. We have three fun, quick and easy ways for you to be involved with Jacqueline me and the podcast, and help us challenge the status quo in love, sex and relationships. Back in episode 89, for Halloween of yesteryears, we had fun turning our relationship fears into rooms of a haunted house of relationship horrors. For example, my fear of getting stuck in a relationship escalator, without any power to shape my own destiny turned into a room where Upon entering, you stepped into a Stairmaster style contraption with the exit door at the top. Your attempts to get out just kept you on the Stairmaster with no joy, no design, just drudgery of social compliance and misery. Scary even thinking about it now. This year for Halloween, we want to open the haunted house once again, but this time with rooms from you. So here's the invitation, jump on to episode 89 If you haven't heard it already, or need a refresher, and then get creative. Pick that one fear that you have when it comes to love sex or relationship and see if you can design your room that represents it. Once you're done, get your Voice Memo app on your phone and tell us all about it. Then send it to listening at we are curious foxes.com You don't need to include your name if you don't want to.
Jacqueline
Next in my four and a half minutes of spare time I opened an Etsy shop. It's a place for me to create products that I want to wear and use from bags for femme lesbians and bisexuals who want to make it very clear that we are not just allies to shirts that declare that I'm with him and her to tote bags that proclaim that I've got 99 problems and white hetero mono normative patriarchy is basically all of them. The Etsy shop is filled with fun pieces, each designed to help us challenge the status quo and celebrate the beauty of pride US Code podcast to get 10% off through the end of July. And if you're in the US get free shipping straight to your door. Visit the roots and wings gallery on Etsy or find the link in our show notes or in my Instagram bio.
Effy
Finally, one huge way you can support the podcast is by connecting with the show on your favorite podcast app. This can be a hot favorite or a Follow button. Also rating the show and leaving a review on Apple Spotify or wherever you listen. We don't have any advertisers or sponsors is, so we rely on our community of listeners to spread the word. If you enjoy the show, or if any of the episodes have meant something to you write a quick review as soon as the episode is over.
Jacqueline
And remember that the best way to stay in contact with us is via our newsletter, where you'll get new episodes, drop emails, monthly digest, and themed emails, where we curate and share all of our episodes about opening up jealousy, sex, and more. Jump to our website, we are curious foxes.com and sign up to the newsletter. And while you're there, check out our blog posts, resources, reading lists, recommendations, and so much more. We're back and talking about parts work. Let's start by talking about why we even develop different parts in the first place.
Effy
Okay, let's start from the beginning. Humans are primed, first and foremost, to survive. For that we need three things, we need to be well fed, well rested, and we need to be connected to the group. Because without the group, we die. This is just how humans have evolved over millennia. From the minute we're born, we're developing strategies for those things. We're hungry or cold or sleepy, we cry. As we get older, we find more sophisticated ways of getting what we need. For most of us connection is the hardest need to maintain. So for that, we created multiple strategies to stay connected to others, and have a sense of belonging. Because connection was often the source of food and rest. As we grow, we try different strategies and continue to learn new approaches to trying to survive, some are helpful, some are misguided. The problem is many of those strategies are specific to a place and time.
Jacqueline
One way that it's been helpful for me to think about this is I imagined that at some point, ancestor of mine, passed by a cave and a lion jumped out and they ran away. And somewhere in their mind, they logged their lions in caves. And then every gave that they pass by they like ran past it. Because the strategy made sense. There's a fear in there, I gotta react to it. And so cut to modern day me, if my partner passes by, and doesn't smile at me as brightly, I'm like, There's a lion. If I don't get an email fast enough back, I'm like, oh, a lion, everything now, for me is a strategy to deal with a fear. But I'm applying that strategy everywhere, even though it was for a very specific place and time that that strategy might have emerged.
Effy
Right? Exactly, exactly. And I think the important thing to understand here is also just how the human memory works, right? We have implicit memory and explicit memory. So implicit memory is essentially learned behavior, right? Explicit memory is when we learn things at school, one plus one is two, right? This is this is explicit memory. And an implicit memory is essentially learned behavior. Just like you said, you go past the cave, something happens. Now through behavior and experience, you realize that lions live in caves. Nobody told you lions live in caves, but you experienced it. I know, you know, Lions live in case and that fear gets stuck in your implicit memory deep in our brains, in our muscles in our nervous system. And with repetition, it calcifies into a one strategy to deal with that one fear, cave, Lion run. And now that becomes a strategy, of course, all the things that we afraid of. Does that make sense?
Jacqueline
Yeah, the challenge is, I think that many of those things that we are exposed to that are scary happened to us in our formative years. And we develop strategy based at that point. So a lot of the things that I have strategies that I've developed as a part of 10 year old me, who was an adult to fight child who felt like I had to take care of my parents and manage the situation. And that 10 year old came up with a strategy of how to deal with conflict. And I've been holding on to that thing for a real long time, or 20 year old me who realized I need to plan everything, because I can't trust anyone. So I'm going to make sure that I'm dictating all the things that happen. And I actually even know better than you. So I'm going to manipulate you and your behavior into the way that I think it should be, because that's probably the better way that is a strategy that I have held on to for a long time. And so I think that's important to name. And then let me share something that has been hard for me to wrap my mind around, and it's taken a few conversations with you and my therapist to figure it out. But I want to clarify what a part is. Because at first I was like, I have so many parts. There's the part of me that's the writer and the part of me that's the temptress and the part of me, that is serious. And I realized that I want to be really careful with language. Those are not parts in the way that we're talking about parts. Those are different aspects of me. So there is an aspect of me that is a writer and an artist. There's an aspect of me that is an optimist, but another aspect of me that is very Emo, and only wants to talk about all the sad mean things and read Russian literature and write poems. Which three, there is the, again, the temptress that wants to go out and socialize. And then there's the cozy side of me that wants to stay home and rest. And all of those things are part of me, capital S, self, adult, me. But then there are these parts of myself, there's the part of me that is the planner and Puppet Master. And that part of me, wants to control everything, doesn't trust anyone, including myself, and inserts her way into every situation to make sure that she can create control. There's another part of me that's an entrepreneur, that is rooted in fear of not having food and shelter, and thinking that I have to monetize everything. And so every idea that the artist comes up with or the writer comes up with that part of myself, the entrepreneur jumps in there and like I no way we can make money from that. And then there is the part of me that is the people pleaser, that feels like I need to find and adjust myself and transform who I am for the people around me so that they will stay. All of those parts of myself seem to inhibit who I want to be where those other aspects of myself are opening up to the possibilities of who I could be.
Effy
Hmm, sure. Yeah, I think this is the basic structure of of the parts work, right. So we need to acknowledge the multifaceted rich identities that we have that form ourselves with a capital S, right. So in some therapies, we talk about the self with a capital S. In some therapies, we talk about the higher self. In some therapies, we talk about the wise mind, right, all of those things are actually kind of talking to your present here. And now adult self with a full set of emotions, a full set of experiences with full sort of options, and being able to show up entirely in it's full and have a sense of context, have a sense of time, and options and creativity to use those options to keep moving forward in life. Right. So this is the full self. And the parts that you're talking about, have a much different sense right there, the kind of the contextless parts that we talked about, they are kind of coming from a very specific time and place. And they are time capsules, that's kind of the way that I think about them, they're really limited in what they know, because they were created a formed during a very specific time in our lives. And they dealt with a very specific issue. And the time capsule, so that five year old you who has a favorite coping strategy, that coping strategy, and that part is, is kind of in a time capsule, and she will always be five, and she will always have that favorite Shoji, she won't change it, because she's not you. She's a part of you that was formed in specific time to protect you from whatever you were dealing with. Right. Same with the 20 year old you or same with all these other parts that you're mentioning, that were formed to deal with one thing and one thing only, they don't understand time, they don't understand place, they don't understand what you have as an adult capital itself, in terms of resources, options, friends, support network, any of that, they just know what they know. So that's kind of exactly what you're saying. The other thing that really helps me understand parts is something that my therapist actually sort of drew this picture for me. And that was really helpful. Imagine that you the Capitol itself, with your full identity is driving a bus, down the highway of life. And you're in charge, you're at the wheel, and you're driving down the highway of life. Behind you are all these parts, often young parts, right? You're talking about a two year old part and a five year old, an eight year old and a 10 year old, depending on your life circumstances. They are young, they're often younger than you they even feel young when when they embody you. And we'll talk about that in a minute. These parts of view are kind of ideally are the back of the bus. They're kind of strapped in there looking out the window and checking out the highway that is life. When everything is fine, you're driving and they're fine. They were looking out the window. Now, every now and then one of them will recognize something that they know to be a problem from back then were sort of eight year old you who was printed by a child who was in charge will see something and she'd be like that thing. That thing is danger and I know how to deal with that. I've dealt with it right. And then they will rush to the front of the bus. They will push you out of the way they get onto the wheel and they start driving the bus. The problem is that eight year old can't reach the pedals don't know how to drive concrete with the wheel and then the bus does as well. Right? You're like bumping into other people you're coming off the rail of the highway you're slowing down and you're going fast you causing chaos, right? Because that part of you should not be driving. Right? And and now she is and it's causing havoc, right and that's when and when a part gets activated. And now she's in charge. And I have had this experience in so many different ways I've had it where, you know, apart will come and push me out of the driving seat. And the worst of the times, I feel like a few of them get activated, they gang up on me, they, they take me from the wheel, they tie me up, and they throw me in the boot. And now I can't even get back to the wheel. And they're now running havoc in my life, I have had these experiences, and over time through therapy, and through understanding these things, I can get myself out of my restraints, fight my way back to the bus, calm everybody down, pull the bus to one side, get everyone in order, shut everybody in and keep going. But that's kind of the way that I think about parts.
Jacqueline
Yeah. And often, I mean, I'm getting better at recognizing when it's happening at the moment. And I'll tell you a little bit about that. But often I recognize it afterwards. Afterwards, after I say something or do something and I feel embarrassed or I feel remorse. And I'm like, what was that? Like, that's not that doesn't align with the person that I want to be like, what what happened there, there's so many things I can think of there's, you know, when I was younger, my father, he wore all of his emotions on his sleeve, he really struggled with emotional regulation. And let me say to his credit, he was physically abused as a kid and really worked very hard not to allow his anger or hurt to translate that way for us. And so we were not hit as children. But there was, you know, a lot of emotional regulation in the household that that was hard for us. And so before my dad would come home from school, rather from come home from work, I'd be home with my brother and my sister. And I would like know, okay, he's gonna be home in 15 minutes. And like everyone, put your cups in the sink, take out your garbages put your shoes away, like hurry. And like everyone run around the house doing all the things because we knew that if he came home, and there were cups out or there were, you know, garbage out, or there was shoes in the middle of the of the living room, we would hear about it. And that would create a lot of tension in the household. Cut to 30 years later, I am in a home that I own, with my wife and my 12 year old daughter. And if I look at the clock, and I'm like, Oh, my wife's gonna be home soon, I start running around the house and putting things away. And I'm telling my daughter, pick this thing up, put your bookbag in your room, get everything, everybody get everything together. Because the idea in my mind is my wife is going to come home from work and look around. And of course, she would never yell at me in a way that my father did. But in my mind, she's going to look at me with disgust, she is going to think that I am not a good partner that I'm not a good home keeper, she's going to build resentment. And so I do this thing. But then I feel resentful, because I'm like, look at her leaving stuff out. Look, she comes home, and just thinks that everything is gonna be perfect, and thinks everything is gonna be put away. Who does she think she is? has happened in real life. This is at this point, I have been hijacked by that 10 year old 12 year old self who was managing the household when I was growing up, and has brought that strategy into my adult life. And that strategy is no longer necessary. It is just creating a lot of anxiety and tension inside of my body and inside of my relationship.
Effy
Totally, totally. There are so many so many examples of that. The thing that came up for me is actually, a lot of this is, by the way, a lot of pots work. A lot of this type of therapy is managed through, I think two things really it's imagination, which I think is super helpful when you can kind of in your mind have a map of of this the structure, this sort of psychic structure. And the other thing is language like that getting the language really makes a difference. So something that you said was you said, oh, like you do something like what was that? Right? And I think a good habit when you're doing parts work actually say Who was that? Right? And that I found to be super helpful because I do things and I do things that I recognize, I have now at a place where I recognize the patterns, right? So I know, the parts that get activated. So when I do something and it doesn't feel like me, like I'm like, this doesn't align with who I am how I view myself. Like it just feel I feel that inner dissonance. The question I asked myself now is who was that a coup, which of the chorus is trying to push me out of the out of the driving seat? So I think when you ask that question, who was that? Then you're like, Okay, let me just go through all the parts and see who's you know, who's upset, who sees something and has something to say, right? And for me, what I've noticed over the years is initially when I learned about my parts, I was frustrated because they kind of do their thing. They push me out of the way and they drive, you know, they drive the bus and my life is in chaos. And I wanted them gone. I wanted them exiled. I was like I don't want these parts. I just want to be me what I've learned over time is that, at least in my heart, I think they're fairly wise, they can be misguided. And they don't have the context. But instinctually, they're not always wrong. So what I try to get out of them is, I want them to advise but not dictate. So when they, they have something to say, what I'm trying to do is okay, what are you trying to say? Why are you Why do you want to be in charge? Like, what are you seeing? That makes you think that you should be in charge? So like, first of all, who was that? Who was that? Put your hand up whoever to
use your words. And then they kind of work backwards from that, you know, if it's the part of me that is really concerned about being misunderstood or misinterpreted, right, then you know, I have a different strategy for her. Or if there's a part of me that heavily avoids, you know, she just wants to avoid she's the runner like she is avoidant. She's the one that starts packing as soon as something goes wrong. She's the one that knows all the flight connections. And she's the one that's like, we're gonna get away from here, right? So they all have their own agendas, and they all have their own things. So it's just about saying, Who was that, and then trying to understand what's going on.
Jacqueline
When I first learned about this, first, I was really, I feel two things at once. I was really skeptical, right? It sounded super woowoo to be like, my inner child is telling me something, and I would be in therapy and talking about it. And she would say like, Okay, well talk to her, like, what does she look like? And what am like, what does she look like? What does she and she's like, talk to her. And what is wild to me, and this has happened every time this has happened when I have done like bodywork and therapy and somatic stuff, where they'll say, visualize it, like what color is it? What's the texture? And there's a part of my brain that's like, what are you what, I don't even understand what you're asking me. And it's ridiculous. And the other part of me is like, it's black. And it's bumpy, like, it knows, right? Like, I'm like, I there's an answer to that. And so she wouldn't, my therapist would say, Okay, what is what does she look like? And I'm like, I would think and say, she's me at 20. And she's wearing a green sweater and gray slacks. And she's like, Okay, what is she doing? Like? Well, she has this big binder. And the binder has lots of different tabs. And each one is for a different aspect of my life. And they're her plans. And when I'm in a situation, she starts flipping through the binder to figure out, which is the strategy that we're going to use, because we have to have an exit strategy, we have to have a response we have to, and she's like, Okay, in this moment, talk to her, tell her you know that you got this. And I'm like, I visualized this in my mind. I'm having this conversation. And she's like, What is she doing? And I'm like, well, she's crying now. And she's like, Okay, well, can you comfort her? And this whole thing, by the way, is blowing my mind as it's happening. Right? There's a piece that is like, incredibly skeptical around, like, what is what is happening right now. But it is helping and it works, right? So I'm not going to question it. I don't actually understand how the moon and the stars work and the planets and like so many things in life, I do not understand. But they work. And so I'm going to trust. And I'm going to trust this as well. So there's that part. The other part of me was actually really excited to have some clarity and understanding around this and be like, Okay, again, that that part of me that walks around with a binder loves themselves, some solutions, love themselves, some explanations and some definitions. And this really helped. And I was super excited. And I started to write down all of my parts. And I came up with a list of 15. And I was like, I'm this and I'm this and I'm this. And the way in which I did that was I thought about all of the voices that I hear on any given moment. So for example, it was my birthday recently. And I thought of all the things that I wanted to do. My birthday generally is really stressful, because there are a lot that I want to do. I wanted to jump on a trampoline, but I also want to go to a lesbian bar. But I also wanted to get fancy cocktails and drinks. And I also want to sit on the couch and watch a movie and I also wanted to go get tappers and I also and there was a million I was like, man, all of these parts. How dare you all of these voices getting in the way of my true self doing what I meant to do. And so then I reached out to Fe and I was like Fe I have 15 parts to name them. There's the planner of course with the binder, she's First there is the writer, there is the advocate. There's the artists, there's the emo on there's the optimist, there's the boss, there's the savage daughter that just wants her toes in the in the sand her fingers in the dirt. There's a playful little girl, there's a social one. There's the entrepreneur, there's the people pleaser. There's the temptress there's the body equa. There's the caretaker, and then it was me. I was like look at all these parts. They're all arguing and getting all over the place. And you very kindly were like, well, I don't know if they're all parts and I'm like, no, no, they're all Little distinct voices and you're like, I'm, I believe that's true that those are all distinct voices. They're not all your parts. And so then we you and I participated in an a two hour long conversation where we were I was trying to partial this out, and then followed up by therapy conversations that helped me clarify this. But I'm circling back to your point around it feeling like it wasn't aligned with your values. And that was one way in which I can understand the distinction between them. The way that my therapist explains it is, there are things that open me up and make me feel expansive. And then there are things that happen thoughts that contract me and make me feel closed in. And the aspects of myself, the parts of myself that are creative, that are that want to explore all types of emotion that want to have my, my fingers in the dirt and my toes in the sand, that want to have sex, and dance and love all of those parts, all of those pieces of me are aspects of my actual self. And unfortunately, they also are in conflict with each other at some time, sometimes I want to go out, sometimes I want to stay in, but those aren't my parts, the parts are the memories, and the emotions and the strategies that are contracting me and making me feel closed in, then that are rooted in fear, and not rooted in possibility. There's a lot of parts of mine, there's a lot of pieces you're gonna get there a lot of pieces and aspects of myself that are rooted in possibility, I want to do all these things. And then they're the voices were like you can do none of them. Nobody loves you, you're gonna be all alone, you have to strategize the hell out of everything and manipulate everyone, or else they're gonna realize, and you're gonna be all by yourself. And you helped me realize those are not in the same bucket. I can't throw those people in the same. Maybe there's like a first class section of my boss. And then there's like a coach, and the partner and the coach, and then they like Storm up and they like take over? Yeah,
Effy
yeah, yes, I think so I think when you start the plots work, it becomes, I know, because I'm the same way, I'm just only a few steps ahead of you, because I started this work a little bit earlier. But it is a journey, anything I was the same at the beginning of my journey, I was like, apart for this apart for this part for this. And I think that the thing that is worth noticing is the richness of the human self like us, humans are rich and multifaceted. And we have desires that sometimes conflict in we have wishes and and also we're also aware of our limitations and, and we have different experiences. So there is richness to us, we're not just one thing and we also not little, little bits of things right there is is an integrated self, that is the self. And then these parts are distinct from that rich self. They also often once you get familiarized with yourself with them, they also distinct in the way they feel in your body. They also distinct in their in their duty, like they're very dutiful, right, like you said, They're not about possibility and and kind of they're just like confusing the possibility and they want all the things. They're very dutiful, like their job is to protect you in some way. And I think that's how you can also tell the difference between your rich self, or apart, which is approaching the situation with this very singular duty of protecting you whether you need that protection or not. So the paths are not about indecision, it's about survival. You can tell the difference by asking the boys, are you trying to keep me safe? What are you trying to keep me safe from weight? Rather than? What do I want to do with my life? Like, do I want to have fun? Do I want to rest? Right? Those are the questions that the question that you can ask the voice that's dictating it in that moment? Are you trying to keep me safe? What are you trying to keep me safe from?
Jacqueline
Yeah, so I'll go back to the example of my birthday because I was trying to convince you in our conversation that those were indeed all of parts that I'm so complicated, that I do have 15 parts, and was saying, well, one side of me, you know, want again, wants to jump on the trampoline, and the other side wants this and this. And you asked me that question, you said well, okay, the parts are rooted in survival. And so I'm trying to keep you safe. And so ask each one of them are you trying to keep me safe? And what are you trying to keep me safe from and trampoline side did not want to keep me safe from anything, they just jump. Right lesbian bar itself didn't want to keep me safe. The part that actually wanted to keep me safe though, was the one that was saying you are being too indecisive. You are too much you want too much. If you ask for all of these things from your wife and your partner, they are going to think that you're too much that you're high maintenance, nobody wants to be around that make a decision. You can't have everything come on put yourself together. And there was another part of myself that was like no do all the things where you will lose yourself. You will gain community but you'll lose yourself and then you're gonna have to be pretending the whole time there were these these conflicting noise in my mind. And I again I I thought that all of that noise, I was under the impression that I would go to therapy and do this parts work and clean everything up. And like everyone gave everyone their ticket to the bus in the right place, and there would be silence and quiet my head. So that's not what it is apparently.
Effy
Wishful thinking.
Jacqueline
New, apparently, those indecisive parts of myself and those indecisive pieces and aspects are still gonna be there, as well, the parts are still gonna be there. But I'm going to learn how to manage those better. So that was helpful. I appreciate that distinction. I mean, I still think I'm very complicated. But it's nice to know. It's nice to know, because you
Effy
are we all are. Yeah, I think the distinction that you came to in the way that you're sort of figuring out like, what is yourself with all the things that that she wants, I should say, this is this is this is a good exercise in language, the you that once all the things that you want, versus the parts that want to keep you safe, right? You were able to distinguish in those by just asking those questions like I tried to keep me safe. No, I want to jump on a trampoline. What are you trying to keep me safe from well, not dangerous, jumping on a trampoline, or going into a lesbian bar, like none of those are trying to keep you safe, they just want you to push towards some sort of joy. And then the ones that were holding you back, do sound like pots. And it's also it's very hard to kind of be that distant from your core self. Once you kind of have the structure in your mind, it is easier to take a step back from a pot and call her she and talk to her talk about her. That will feel okay. But if you were doing that, from the Capitol, ourselves, that won't feel right, it will cause inner dissonance. So that's the other thing that as you as you do this work more. And if you disciplined about talking about yourself, in the first person I and then you talk about the parts as she separate parts of you, then you'll also by just referring the machine or AI, you will also get a feel of Oh, am I talking to a part or am I talking to me to the capital by the capital itself, right. And that's the other thing. And the second thing is, the more you do this work and you combine it with embodiment practices, and more somatic experiences of somatic therapies, and really kind of work on the body part of things, you will also start developing an actual bodily feeling for those parts. Right. So some parts will come with tight shoulders, some some, you know, parts come with fidgety. Like, I have a part that fidgets you know, she's like she, she she touched her foot. Right? So she's very much when when she when I'm hijacked by her. I'm so hijacked by her, my body changes. And I stopped, I stopped being this person who taps her foot, right. So the more that you really develop it understand this part, you also get bodily sensations. You know, and I, you know, I use some of this work with my clients. And I've heard it all I've heard people say, I feel my skin calling. I've heard people say that is a temporary change in temperature of their body. Posture is definitely something that goes where they feel the parts, like I feel this part in my stomach, I feel this part and around my heart, I feel this part around my throat. Like I've definitely heard of those. Personally, I feel a very much difference in the way that I control my body, the more that I embody my, my physical body with each of these parts. I think that's also worth sort of working on as well.
Jacqueline
Absolutely, right. Yeah, I had that same realization that and that's, again, when I'm in therapy, she talks a lot about how I feel both in terms of my emotions, and like sensations, like what's physically feeling in my body. And she's helped me realize as well that based on where it feels in my body that can help give an indication of who it is that's speaking. And so the planner very much lives in the tightness of my chest. So as soon as I start to feel overwhelmed, in any situation, my chest gets really tight, my shoulders contract in, and my mind starts racing and thinking I need to create a plan, right, and that's that part that's like you need to get into controller, everything is going to go crazy. Everything is gonna go wild. And so you need to get things together because you cannot survive like this. And you know, it's like the the book, the body keeps score, there are real, our body really does hold on to these traumatic experiences that we have, and these painful experiences and these needs for survival. And so I think those parts feels like they get activated in those moments where we pass by the cave, and when I go, the lion, right, our legs are going to tie in and it's like our body knows instinctually what to do right now. And so I from a physical place feel that and then from for more of an emotional mental place, something that you said earlier also resonates around my homework assignment actually right now in therapy is to write down what all of my values are myself my adult capitalist self, so that I can be clear when I am behaving outside of those values, that that is likely a part that has taken over hence I remember early on in my, my relationship with my wife after we had opened up and she was seeing someone was in was in partnership, I acted in ways that was so misaligned with my values. I was the one who opened who introduced opening up the relationship. And now, you know, to be fair, there was infidelity. And you know, she fell in love with somebody else and didn't tell me there was a lot that happened there that triggered, this is not safe, right, you got to get this thing together like like that, that that was a cave.
I passed by and someone jumped out, but I would scream at her. And I would cry. And I would stay up all night standing by the window, and I would be mentally consumed by it. So many things that just, I was distraught in ways that did not feel aligned with my real value around, this is good. We should love many people and be an experience that I wasn't acting from that place I was acting from a place of fear. And so looking at that there are a lot of times where I can see things that are not nice. There are a lot of times where I can ignore someone there a lot of times that I do things where I'm like, why would you Why did you do that? But that's not where you want to be. And in those moments, I'm I'm reflective I'm then it's like, Alright, who was that?
Effy
Who was that?
Jacqueline
Just rolled your eyes and said that name yourself. And so in the moment trying to be like, where does it it feels like the palm of my hands get sweaty. And like my fingers get fidgety? Like that's one part again, the chest kind of getting tightening that like six stomach like that in my gut, like, oh, like I over ate. And that's another feeling. So that has been really interesting to pay attention to and be able to figure that out and be like, who are you?
Effy
Sure, let me tell you a crazy story. So I do Pilates. That's my new obsession. I've been doing it for a year now. And what I love about Pilates is unlike yoga, which also I use as an embodiment practice, the thing with Pilates and I do want to reform us. So for those who don't know, you might want to Google this. But essentially, Pilates is done on a what they call a reformer, which is this bed type contraction that has a flat part that you kind of lie on for most of the exercises. And you can go back and forth forward on it. So your your bodyweight is almost at all times supported. And you really working with more than one muscle group at a time. And it also allows me for a second. Yes,
Jacqueline
I was just gonna say that just as you google this, I need to insert this. It is not like lying in a bed and just moving one part. So that's not what you're saying. But this is what I know. And when I did a class, and it was like, This is amazing. I'm gonna lay in a thing that looks like a bed, and they're going to be like move your leg back and forth. And then I'm going to be fit and lose weight and be strong. That's not what I certainly was laying down and only moving one leg and it was terrible. And it hurt. I mean, it was good. It was good for my body. But just wanted to know name that as you're saying it. Yes, that's this description. But those of you who haven't done it, and I'm like laying down and just moving their arm that I need to check out. It's not what you think.
Effy
No, actually, it's very strenuous. Though they do say now you can lay on the bed. And every time they do say that I do snugger to myself. But yes, it is very hard because it is helping you work with micro muscles. And it is hard work. But it's good for you, it's probably the best shape I've ever been in. The thing though, the what I love about it because your body full body weight is supported and you kind of working with one muscle group at a time and often one side at a time, you actually start to map out a really comprehensive feeling of your body, like one muscle group one side at a time. And one thing I've noticed is that my right and my left side are very different, which is normal for everybody physically different one stronger than the other one and one more coordinated than the other one that is just just human body. I have started notice that they have entirely different emotional profiles. When I'm working with my right side, and I'm like I'm struggling because I'm on you know, the whatever the 10th set of the thing I'm doing and I'm like dying, that the emotional portfolio of that side is very, very different than the other side who has a different coping strategy for this. Like one side wants just like the one side is screaming at me and saying, quit, just stop it. Just this is enough. We don't want to do this anymore. You don't have to finish your reps. Just tell them you don't want to do it anymore. And that's what she screams. My other side goes come on one more time. You can do it. Just give it a push. Do your best. And it's incredible how the two sides of my body have an entirely different what feels like personalities, right? Which overtime I'm also like none mapped out. Oh, like, I feel that things in different parts of my body to the other very specific crazy thing that's happened is, with a Pilates machine, you can also do some crazy ass stretches like because it's supported in certain ways. You can really like stretch one muscle at a time when any other way you you wouldn't be able to, you'd have to have like a chair and a wall to kind of prop yourself up on. So you can like stretch this one muscle or straights like the part of you. Because the bed supports you and gives you straps and wires to pull yourself back and forth. It really allows you to isolate and stretches, what I've noticed is when I stretch back on my legs, I get this rush of emotions, that just is telling me to run. It is like the avoidant part of me just gets activated in a way that I've never had before, when I stretch a certain way the back of my legs on that machine when I'm supported and nothing else, so I'm committed to that stretch, and I'm not going anywhere else, I feel a rush of emotion that is just telling me to run. And what I've noticed is it's also the muscles that you would use to run you actually would activate. So there are so many connections with the way that our bodies are and the emotional portfolios that are attached to those those parts of the body. So I do think I mean, I love parts work. I've been doing parts work for years now. And what has really got me to the next level to really understand what's going on and how I feel not just how I feel emotionally but how I truly holistically feel it is that mapping of those feelings and those parts into my physical body and, and how I move and how I coordinate myself.
Jacqueline
Yeah, that is super interesting how you can have different aspects of you get called up with different movements I in the one and only time that I went to Pilates, because that was the time that I realized that it's not like lying in the bed and just moving one leg, the instructor was telling me Okay, now you're gonna move, put your arm like this, and then your leg like this and move your kick your hip out that way and tuck in your stomach. And my brain was like this is too many things at once. A big part of the work that I'm doing is trying to to get back into my body. I'm very disembodied, they live in my head. And so my brain can tell each of my parts the instruction and like Okay, hands do this thing. And then I'll be like, okay, hip, do this. And so then hands are like, Alright, great, we're done now. And then my head is like, no, no hands, go back up, okay, hip, get yourself some tuck in. And the person is looking at me like what's happening? Because she's doing She's literally showing me with her own body, one leg is out when the and I can't mirror her. I'm using the wrong leg, I'm putting in the left side instead of the right side. And, and it's, it was weird for both of us, because I can see her. She's telling me with words what to do. But my body is not responding. And it really feels like my brain or my parts do not want me to connect to my body because I have stored lots of stuff in different places. And it's like lots of closets that are filled with things and I start to open the door and be like, no, no, no, no, do not open that door. I just keep walking. I'm like, no, no, they said I'm supposed to strip they're like, Don't you do it? Don't you dare do it. And so same thing when I try to dance sometimes like salsa or other things that have multiple steps or come like my brain, just short wires and can do it. Because there is this really large disconnect. And so part of the work of my parts work is paying attention to them. Being in my physical body and saying what part hurts? What part is tingling? What's happening inside of my body?
Effy
For sure. Yeah. I think you and I were also talking, you're sort of asking me like how do you know you're in yourself? Like how do you know you are embodying the self? Yeah. And I think, for me, that embodiment work, the work that I do, through dancing through yoga, through Pilates through a bajillion other, whatever I can get my hands on, that really helps me connect to my body is the biggest que where I am right now, really only my capital S self and fully embodies my body. Even though I get these like messages, like I said, like, you know, when I'm struggling, I'll get a voice in my head like quit, quit, you don't want to do you can't even manage another one. Like that happens. Even though it is connecting to my body, like it's talking about my body, but it doesn't drive my body. And I know that I am fully embodied in my capital itself is when I am fully driving my body. And you know, I spent two months in Bali, dancing, therapeutic dancing every day. And at the end of that crazy journey. I was like, Oh, this is and I've been doing this for years. I've been dancing for years, you know, but that kind of intensity that two months of therapeutic dancing every day, day after day, day after day, tending to my muscle aches doing again the next day, sitting with the meditation, doing it again and again. I now have a very distinct physical sense of when I'm fully embodied and fully driving my body at its optimum capacity, which is for me is what I'm in flow in dancing. And I know that if I'm disconnected from that, I know something is something is wrong. I now know it's not the end of the world, I know how to get back into find my way back to my body, back to connection. You know, I have strategies for that. But that is my biggest clue. Like, if I'm not fully driving my body, something is wrong. I probably hijacked somewhere, they pushed me out of the wheel, something is happening. I'm distracted, looking out the window, and they've like snuck up on me. And they're kind of like, putting their hands on the wheel. And I haven't noticed that I think that's kind of what happens these days. Like, I'm distracted, looking out, and then kind of like snuck up from behind me. And they're just like, putting weight on the wheel. I don't even realize it. I'm like, why are we hearing? What's happening? I'm like, hey, get you out of the way. And everyone naughty? Good. That's kind of my experience these days.
Jacqueline
Yeah, that's pretty funny. I think what has helped me is actually I sat down and wrote out all the things that I thought were my parts. And then I realized which which were aspects of myself, and which were my, you know, capital P parts and gave BIOS to everyone who was like, this is their name. This is, what their agenda is, what their strategy is, what their fear is, this is how they show up. This is what they look like. And that really helped me because then it I can more easily to your point, if I, if I almost separate those aspects. And I'm thinking so again, I'll give you the, the planner is very much the puppet master it lives in my chest, and she wants to make sure that everything is being controlled, every one and everything is being controlled. And she is the person who has imaginary arguments in her mind, and thinks about all the things that she would say if something happened. She is the person who thinks about, well, if I got into a car accident, then what would happen next, if my daughter ever got kidnapped, then what will you Oh, what would I do? She goes to worst case scenario and starts to plan them. And does it under the guise of if I plan it now, I'll know what to do then. Which doesn't make any sense. It just stresses me out. So that's the plan, or I can feel her. There's the advocate. There's the part of me that's like, That is not fair. That is not just that is not right. And I will go hard towards what I think is right. But that comes from a place of if there is no order, if there is no justice, then how do I know I'm going to have enough food for myself and my daughter, how am I going to know that we're safe, like we need to have some order, things need to be fair. And so that's where that's rooted. There is again, the entrepreneur who does not allow the poor writer and artist inside of me to just be creative, wants to then create and to make stuff. And some of that is fun. I love putting out the things that I do in the world, but wants to monetize everything because there's a real deep fear that I'm going to not have enough. And then the people pleasers would pleaser and caretaker. That seems pretty obvious. But that's like, I need to I need to nurture my relationships in a way that compromise myself in order to maintain this connection. And so those parts of me are not helping me. They come from good places. They mean well, and I appreciate them because they notice things that I don't sometimes, but their strategies are kind of immature. And they haven't grown up with me. Yeah, I
Effy
think that's that's the that's the struggle with them. Right. Like I said, I actually think my parts have, most of my parts have really good instincts. Like they're wise, they always when they notice something, they're really notice something right. And sometimes, you know, the skeptic is definitely a part for me. And also the part that really feels that she knows people she like she will alert me to people she'll be like, No, not this person. We're not gonna go anywhere near them. No, no, I She's, she's, she'll be she's very, she can be very cold and aloof. And that's not like I'm not really cold or aloof. Like I, me i the multifaceted adult is not an aloof person. I love people. And I'm curious about people, but there's definitely a part of me that becomes very cold and aloof. And she actually has really good instincts about people. She's made some calls that I've ignored and only to find myself in relationships and I'm like, What am I doing? I should have listened to her. So this is what I'm saying. For me. I want my parts to advice not dictate but advice and I do listen, I've got to the point now I do I do a roll call. I do you know the chorus you know, I'm like what's up everyone? What are we saying about this? You know, so I do listen and you and I find also you kind of had to love them you know that's why you know they become more activated unchecked and unloved. You know, I if I don't pay attention to them, If I ignore them, if I don't do them, they become unruly, and they really want to grab the wheel because they don't trust anyone. They don't trust me. And they don't trust anyone. So if you don't give them what they need, which is to be heard, then they want more and they want to be louder and they want to be more persistent and they get what they want. And there's more of a chaos in the bus then. So I have got to the point where I do since all of that, because I think there is some wisdom in them. And the other thing is, you have to remember, these parts are just good at that one thing, and they're really good assets. So they're really good at noticing the lion. So if you're in the jungle, that part is the part that you want, because she is going to tell you when the line is around, right? Right, right. So if you have a part that is really good at picking this one thing up, and you happen to be in the right environment, you want the doesn't depart, she's been doing this for her entire life. There's one jaw one duty, so you kind of want to listen to what she has to say. The other thing that's worth mentioning is for some people, not for me, my parts are all humanoids of some sort. That's not the case for everyone. I know that people have done parts work, where they can have a menagerie of animals for their parts. I've seen that like I've heard about that. And I've worked with people who are like, the monkey, the shark, the lioness, like they have their like animals that represent their parts, right? I've definitely worked with people who've had like humanoid and like monsters, like the one that comes up often, like people who are dealing with jealousy, they've identified apart that that come from a jealous place. And for them, it's like the monster, you know, because they feel like when they're embodied by that part, they kind of become monstrous, right? The idea is not to vilify the, the parts, right? You're not supposed to be like, Oh, that's a monster. But as long as you're kind of doing it in a way that is neutral and you it's could be like a monster like a monster like a Monsters Inc type of monster or, or you can even sort of a monster that you can relate to, you can still like sit with that monster and have a conversation. Right? The idea is not to vilify and exile that part, but they don't have to be humanoids. And they don't have to be like these fully fleshed out, you know, humans with bios, and clothes and accessories. I think that's worth knowing.
Jacqueline
Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure it says something about me that all of my parts are me.
Like me, they're just me at different ages. I'm sure that that's a thing. Yeah, I appreciate you naming that. Because I do think that this process comes in so many different in so many different ways. I also want to name that you said in the beginning at the top that for a lot of us maintaining connection and relationship is one of the hardest needs to maintain one of the things that we need the most. Because evolutionarily, being a part of community meant food and rest and safety. And so that feels like the jungle. And so I appreciate that sometimes everything to me feels like the jungle, right? Like, again, if my partner doesn't doesn't smile at me warmly enough, I'm like, Lion, right? If she goes out and like, gets herself a sandwich to get me one, like lion, like, everything is scary. Because everything feels like the jungle. I think the distinction is I've learned that to really read someone's emotional changes, having grown up again, in an environment that was emotionally unregulated. And instead of for example, if I see my partner and she, she is acting a little bit cold, there are multiple strategies that flashed through my mind. One was, she is mad at something, well, then how dare she act like that? I'm gonna be mad too, and to respond that way. Another strategy was, she's mad at me for some reason. So like fun and like, you know, catered to her and something so that she feels like, loved and wants to be attached again. Then other part of me was like, I gotta get out of here, then, like, there are other people outside of her. Like, there were all these things that were happening in my mind off of that. And so adult me, like, listen to the voices. I was like, Alright, everyone, we send something, let's just ask the question. And I was like, Hey, you, right? And she's like, Yeah, I'm having heartburn. I just, I think it's something that we ate, feeling some heartburn. And I was like, oh, okay, had I listened to any of the people on the bus and followed any of those strategies, I'm very surely would have gotten ended up in a fight, because I either would have been cold, I would have been too too funny. And to connect, I would have left and there was no real nothing. She had heartburn. And so you know, pay attention, listen, then be the adult in the room and make a decision to sometimes not do one of the strategies that are offered offered up to you. And I said maybe she's asked the question.
Effy
Yes. I think what the parts are really good at is noticing what they're not very good at is dealing. I think that is what I mean about wisdom. I want advice, but I don't want to dictate they're good at noticing they are hyper tuned because that's what they do. They're just not very good at dealing with stuff. So I think it's great that they made you notice that your partner was was struggling, right because it opens communication it opens where you makes you available to check in with them and be like, Hey, are you okay? What's up? How are you feeling? Right? And that opens you up for connection, it's a possibility for connection, how you want to deal with it. If you listen to any of those parts, of course, that's gonna cause nothing but disconnection and havoc. But the fact that they notice and they let you know, that they noticed can be an opportunity for connection.
Jacqueline
Yeah, yeah, I think I think that's maybe a good place for us to end is to think about what are the ways if you're not engaged in parts work. And again, we will reiterate, we're not therapists, we really just wanted to talk about something that we have been thinking about and experiencing in our own therapeutic work, because it has been really meaningful to us. And but we've been thinking about how does this apply past that? So if you're not imparts work? How do you use some of these ideas in your own self work, and for me, that example that I just gave you, it's been so valuable for me to realize that the noise and the chaos is not in my relationships, it's in my mind, these like tensions in these arguments in this mistrust in this jealousy in these, they're not actually happening. Most 99% of the time, it's happening in my mind, I all of these parts are are trying to identify lions that don't exist. And I don't want to ignore them, because then they won't trust me. And then they are going to throw me off the off the steering wheel, and they're going to take over my goal instead is to build trust with these parts, and to really listen so that they will start to calm down. And let me the adults, capital S self take the lead. And so I yeah, I kept feeling like there's a lot that's happening outside, but it's inside, it's inside. And so I feel really good about
Effy
it. Is the age old question. Is it a wee problem? Or is it a me problem? Most of the time, it's a me problem. So I actually use parts work in my coaching and the things that I would want to leave people with or the questions that I asked in my coaching, or encourage clients to ask themselves. When you feel conflict, inner conflict, you can ask the question, which part or parts wants this? In which parts gets in the way or resisting it? And why? In a similar way, we talked about earlier when you feel like something is not aligned, or you find yourself in an argument with a partner, or even with a friend. And it just feels like that's not how you want to show up, and how you believe yourself to be, you can ask the question, which part is showing up in this relationship right now. So who would like we said, Who is showing up right now. And that could also give you a guide to whether you're showing up as your full rich capital itself, or being hijacked by a part. And once you get to know these things, you can then communicate these things to your partner, or in a similar way they can communicate back to you about their parts. So I actually find this to be really helpful when you are trying to communicate within your relationships.
Jacqueline
If you've been engaged in parts work, or if any of our conversation is resonating with you. If you have questions if you have stories to share. When you have gotten hijacked by one of your parts on the bus, then we would love for you to go onto Facebook group and we are curious foxes and start a conversation. Share your reactions to this conversation. Share your story, share your questions, but go on there, start a conversation. We are curious foxes on Facebook. You can also visit our website at we are curious foxes, where you're gonna find more episodes, blog posts, reading lists and resources that are related to the topics of love, sex and relationships. And of course, where you can sign up for our newsletter and hear from us every week to get curated content sent straight to you. If you want some bonus cuts, some behind the scenes, some mini episodes, some bloopers online workshops. There's a lot of things that are available to you outside of this podcast and outside of our website, and you can find those things on Patreon. At we're curious boxes. If you want to share this episode with someone who you think needs to hear it. If this conversation meant something to you then please leave a review on podcast Apple, Spotify, audible Stitcher, wherever you're listening. If you haven't already, please follow us or like us. Leave a rating. And again, share this episode with somebody else. That's how the podcast algorithm decides whether or not it's going to recommend our show to others. And then finally, let us know that you're listening by sharing a question or story with us via email or if you want to share your scary love sex and relationship story for a haunted house a relationship fears episode, you can send us an email or voice memo to listening at we are curious foxes.com
Effy
This episode is produced by Effy Blue and Jacqueline Misla with help from Yağmur Erkişi. Our editor is Nina Pollock, who supports all parts of us. Our intro music is composed by SAMSA we are so grateful for their work, and we're grateful to you for listening. As always, stay curious friends, curious Fox podcast you is not and will never be the final word on any topic. We solely aim to encourage curiosity and provide a space for exploration through connection and story. We encourage you to listen with an open and curious mind, and we'll look forward to your feedback. Stay curious friends.
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