Ep 107: Conscious Uncoupling
Art by @sex.n.sandwiches
What is conscious uncoupling? How is it different from breaking up? How do you go through the process of uncoupling with intention and kindness? What if the other person does not want to go through this process, can you do it on your own?
In this episode, Effy and Jacqueline are challenging the idea that all relationship transitions end in shouting matches and slamming doors. They take a deep dive into conscious uncoupling and talk about what it takes to exit a relationship with dignity and respect.
To find more about Effy Blue and Jacqueline Misla, follow them at @wearecuriousfoxes, @coacheffyblue, and @jacquelinemisla on Instagram.
If you have a question that you would like to explore on the show, reach out to us and we may answer your question on one of our upcoming episodes. Leave us a voicemail at 201-870-0063 or email us at listening@wearecuriousfoxes.com
Follow us:
fb.com/WeAreCuriousFoxes
instagram.com/wearecuriousfoxes
Join the conversation:
fb.com/groups/CuriousFox
TRANSCRIPT:
Effy
Welcome to the Curious Fox podcast for those challenging the status quo in love, sex and relationships. My name is Effy Blue.
Jacqueline
And I'm Jacqueline Misla. And today we're talking about conscious uncoupling. popularized by Gwyneth Paltrow, and Chris Martin and coined by relationship expert and author Catherine Woodward, Thomas in her book, conscious uncoupling five steps to living happily ever after the expression has become synonymous with transition versus breakup. So nature has designed us to the bond we are a pair-bonding species. And as we bond and often attach, when the time comes to break up, we can feel like the end of the world is coming.
Effy
That our survival mode kicks in weak springs attachment ruptures where we think we are literally going to die if our partner leaves. What is it called? Attachment Rapture? Attachment Rapture? Yeah. And yes, yes, yes. Yeah, I'm on the floor crying and sobbing, because I'm going to die. After this breakup. Yes, yes, it actually has roots in childhood experiences where we would literally die if our caregivers left us, right, it is anchored in a very, very real feeling of if my caregiver who is the person who loves me, or that's where all this is rooted leaves. As a child, I can't take care of myself, just the human infant takes forever to actually be able to take care of itself, that we know inherently that we will die, there is a high higher chance that we're going to die. So when that is triggered, that attachment, stuff is triggered as an adult, we go back, we regress back to that time, and think we are literally going to die. So attachment ruptures are very, very real. And they do feel from a nervous system point of view. They really do feel like we're going to die.
Jacqueline
Yeah, I can picture a 21-year-old me believing I was going to die because that relationship ended. Yes. Yeah, I know. It's hard. And I think there are a lot of things that you can do to sue that. And really, it's worth the work, especially if you are prone to experiencing that even when there is no rejection or people leaving, right. You know, I've worked with people who experienced that when their partner is just going out the door to get groceries, right? They the fact that they are leaving their sight, they have a burst of this like, I'm going to die. So it is very real. Yeah. So on the one hand, we have that we have the breakup that is going to cause my death then, on the other hand, now way on the other side of the spectrum, we have conscious uncoupling.
Effy
Exactly, exactly. And the conscious uncoupling the goal of conscious uncoupling is to end the relationship with honor, dignity, and mutual understanding and respect. That is the ideal scenario. Right? You all know what it is that what has happened, and you learn from it and you're kind and generous with one another and you go off in your own paths. That is the goal of conscious uncoupling.
Jacqueline
Yeah, that sounds a lot better than when I did.
Effy
Yes, I think my last major was not conscious uncoupling but breakup I left the entire continent that was..
Jacqueline
Such an Effy Blue thing. I'm out, like OUT.
Effy
Yes exactly. I'm gonna leave the entire continent to you. I'm gonna just hop over the ocean and start in you. That is an old me that was not unconscious uncoupling people I don't recommend it to anyone. That's one way to do it or another The way to do it is that you get really clear, you get really centered, right? You figure out why is it that you want to break up, you anchor it all in your own needs and what you want to do rather than how it will impact your partner, rather than making things either difficult for them and easy for them or to feel righteous or to cause the most damage. Like go to that place rather than get like clear about okay, like, this isn't working for me. And here are the reasons why isn't working for me. And it's about my needs.
Jacqueline
Yeah, no, let's go back to me not doing it. Well. Let's go back to that. Yeah, I mean, that makes sense to me. If afterward focus on what do I need right now for my healing? What do I need to move forward? As opposed to what I was doing? Was like revenge fantasies, essentially. Right? Which is everything from seeing the perfectly crafted below, like saying the phrase that just like Porsche, like goes inside like a dagger, or, like, randomly bumping into them in the street, and I look great. I look fantastic. And I'm laughing. There's a drink in my hand. I'm like, it's a beautiful day. I look gorgeous, right? That, or our friends and family, like praising me behind the scenes, because I've taken the moral high ground in this breakup. Right. So that was probably more than special of where I was my was versus thinking about my needs and moving forward.
Effy
Completely. Yeah. And do you see how like, those are all about other people right now, even though you're like centerstage, but it is about how you're going to be received by others or the impact that you're having on others? So I mean, that is one way to do it. Is it the best way to do it?
Jacqueline
Sorry for those who dated us a long time. Apologies.
Effy
Yes. Thank you. We learn from you. Yes, I now have a career because of you.
Jacqueline
We have a podcast. Because of today's bill, yes. Yes. Yes.
Effy
Yes, exactly. And I think you know, conscious uncoupling. I think for a while the phrase conscious uncoupling was a bit of a joke, right? Because it was popularized by Gwyneth and Chris. And people made fun of it for a while. But you know, the idea has been around way before they popularized it. Catherine Woodward Thomas wrote a book where she invites you to follow her five steps to consciously uncouple. And, you know, the book is okay, I read it a while ago, it's okay. It's a little normative for me, and then the people that I work with, but like with any of these books, I, it's a good resource, I really recommend people who are going through it or considering it to read it, and then just read it be Bruce Lee, take what serves and leave what doesn't, I think she does do a good job of kind of providing a roadmap that you can follow. I think it feels simplified, like what she's recommended that you do is actually big, big steps. Everything it felt to me that it was a little like, oh, just do this, you know.
Jacqueline
Just reevaluate your childhood and all of your past. You know, just speak honestly, with each other so that you can heal and grow.
Effy
Yes, yes, exactly. A little bit. But you know, transitions, breakups, constant couplings, they are inherently messy. So but I would say read the book, it's worth it.
Jacqueline
Yeah. I think, you know, in my research around it, because you and I both work with with folks and do some coaching. And I think we both have had folks that are going through this process. And I think the things that I've taken away specifically are from the value of this process is that it can help the the couple who is uncoupling realize that the conflict that they're experiencing, and their relationship now is probably based on unhealed hurts from their past. Absolutely. And so instead of blaming their partner for all the things that went wrong, it's an opportunity for reflection, it's an opportunity to be a student, and to learn from your partner to learn from the experience so that you don't repeat those patterns moving forward.
Effy
Absolutely. I think if you look back on your relationship, and all you can come up with are the things that your partner have done wrong, right. If that's all you make a list and the list is all of the things that your partner has done wrong, and that how they are a terrible person and you just cannot figure out, you know, your contribution towards this uncoupling. I would say, consider the fact that you are the one who chose that partner, and you're the one that stayed in that relationship for as long as you did. And this is not to blame you. This is not to say you've done anything wrong. But the realize that even if you couldn't think of a single thing that you've done wrong in the relationship, you Do you need to look at the fact that you chose to be in that relationship? And you might want to evaluate and understand why you chose that partner, and why you stayed? And absolutely learn from that, so that you don't repeat the behavior and or maybe you want to repeat the behavior, right? But the chances are if you are uncoupling right now, you don't want to be in this place again. Right. And I think it's important that if for nothing else, we need to understand our patterns, our thoughts, our beliefs around the relationships, which then make us choose the partners that we do.
Jacqueline
Yes. Which makes sense that within the non-monogamy space that there's this has been a conversation for a while before they probably even there was a name of it, but just this idea of transitioning?
Effy
Absolutely. Absolutely. It's been around poly communities for a long time and non-monogamous folks for a long time. Folk for a couple of reasons. Some of them were very, very practical reasons, right. Most people are in small communities because non-monogamous communities have historically been small, close-knit communities, especially polyamorous communities, people have crossovers, in terms of partners and all that kind of stuff. So it just makes more sense to uncouple consciously than slam doors and exit out of relationships. Also, people who are non-monogamous tend to have a more of an understanding that relationships come in different shapes and sizes and can transition, right they tend to have they have an idea of a transitioning from a relationship to another type of relationship because they're aware of all the different types of relationships that are available, right? So people can go from long-term partnerships to put on a co-parent to friends with occasional benefits to occasional lovers to now, long-distance pen pals, there seems to be more fluidity as you go through relationships. So people have been talking about relationship transitions, and conscious uncoupling with the non-monogamous communities for a long time.
Jacqueline
Yeah, well, that's what made me think about it. When you were saying, You need to reflect, you need to think you need to look back, you need to look forward. I'm like, Oh, those are all things you have to do in the non-monogamous relationship, in order for it to thrive is to be in that space. So I think that's part of it, too, is just there is a practice and a built muscle around reflection, communication. Introspection grow.
Effy
Yeah, ideally, right? Ideally, of course, just because you're not monogamous doesn't mean you're, you know, you're doing all the things by the book. But that is the ideal. And yes, if you're in a non-monogamous relationship, and you're thriving in it, the chances are you have mastered some of those skills, communication, reflection, all those things that you just mentioned, that you've had plenty of practice, and you worked at it and you've mastered it, at least you're on the way to mastery. Which, which all of those skills really help when you're trying to consciously uncouple for sure.
Jacqueline
Let me know about mastery for a second because I am often the person whom people come to when there needs to be a difficult conversation because I can navigate through difficult conversations very well. And I hate difficult conversations. So I just want to clarify the reason I'm good at it is that I don't like it. And so I kept practicing and doing it over and over and over and over again. So the muscle knows how to do it inside um, I'm still like No, he doesn't want to heat the heated right. But like on the outside, I can be empathetic, I can be clear about cool. So so just noting that, that I just mastery doesn't mean that you like it that it feels it just means that you practice and practice and practice to a point that you can do it easier.
Effy
Absolutely, yeah. Just because you can navigate conflict doesn't mean you like conflict. Absolutely. So yes, yes, yes. Yes, we're well worth mentioning that. Okay, so we kind of talked about what conscious uncoupling is. Let's talk about well, how do you do this amazing relationship maneuver?
Jacqueline
How do we do it?
Effy
From you know, being together for X number of time, whatever, that is a significant relationship and then gracefully uncoupling and, you know, managing your feelings and sort of blossoming out of it. Yes, I was laughing as you say that because of the I don't know if this is true for you, but if you ever listened to like Adele's albums, or some other like breakup songs, and you like singing and belting it, and you kind of want to break up with somebody just to like, be able to thing and like authentically sing. I'm kind of I'm in that space right now. I'm like, I want to consciously uncouple with someone now.
Jacqueline
But like, not really, but kind of but not really. That's where I'm at right now and then listen to Adele's song. That's what I want to do. Exactly. Adele songs or I think at the time for me it was Amy Winehouse.
Effy
I was all in Amy Winehouse's albums. And you know, that is some of the work that you do around conscious uncoupling you do need to do a lot of self-care and find whatever you need to to feel good and feel supported. And if it means that you belt out some Adele songs in your car, as you're, you know, figuring this stuff out, do it, if that's what it takes, absolutely do it. Well, just like with most things, a good place to start, when you consciously uncoupling or going through the process, or even considering the process is to start with thyself. Of course, that's what you have to start. And I think a really good important piece. And sometimes, that is the step that people struggle the most with, which then has a long tail has a bunch of issues and drama down the line that you really need to emotionally and mentally wrap your head around the fact that you are now on the coupling, right? You cannot have these conversations with yourself or with your partner or with your community with your friends, in the hopes that there will be reconciliation, that time has passed. It has to be towards closure, learning, and healing. And that is really important to get clear about.
Jacqueline
I feel I feel there's somebody listening to this right now that it's like exhaling slowly. That yeah, yeah. Particularly because if there is a fondness and a level of respect and care for each other to want to go through this process, it can then be difficult to you know that some of the folks that I work with one of the clients that I'm working with, every once awhile say like, well, it's that bad. Like, I know, I know, you know that there's a lot of things and maybe we shouldn't be together but like, but we care about each other. We have a good time, like are the problems that bad? And so I can see how if you're in that space to go through this process, that kind of affection for each other, may make it feel difficult.
Effy
Yeah, absolutely. I think, is it? I actually think there's a massive dichotomy, the better that you do the conscious uncoupling, the easier it's to lose sight of why you're doing it. Yes, exactly. So you really have to stay anchored in the fact that oh, we actually hope. And the truth is, the reason why you're able to do so well now is that a part of you has decided that you are now uncoupling and that is the knot the emotional knots that you're navigating. The reason why now the conversations might be easier than you don't censor yourself as much and that there is suddenly more space and more generosity is because you're going through the conscious uncoupling process. And some of the things that held you down and the weight of the relationship and all the things, there's a part of you that has let that go. So now you're operating in the space of well, okay, we don't have to worry about any of this, like this is now over and we're coming to the end of it, we're tying loose ends. And the better that you do it, the more like why are we doing this again? And forget the fact that it's going so well because you've done it? Yeah.
Jacqueline
That's, that's right on. So that is just, I think also what's sitting me with the as, as you're saying that is because in order to do what you've described, it means that you have to really sit in your vulnerability, in your honesty, around your fear and your hurt and your wish and your longing. And it makes me think of the episode that we did. It was episode number 70. It was with Dr. Thomas Whitfield around Emotionally Focused couples therapy. And in that conversation, he was talking about how it is easier to default to anger, because anger feels more empowering than hurt or sadness or fear. And so it's easier to which is why in that conversation, we talk about arguments and conflict and how when we're angry about the dishes, it's not really about the dishes, but that place of like it is easier, likely in a breakup to be angry. And to have those revenge fantasies to belt out Adele, like it's easier to do that, than to sit in the I could have done something differently. And now I'm learning from that. Or I realize now that you and I see this thing differently. And even though we love each other, it's not going to work like that is much harder, I think to sit in than anger.
Effy
Absolutely. Anger is a defense mechanism. Right in those situations. It's a fight response. It's easier to go into a fight response and be angry or like just leave everything and walk away that is flight response right none of those are regulated responses. I mean, they are reactions they are reactions to a at attachment rupture they are reactions to the world is ending their reaction to actual deep, hurt and fear. They're not where you become curious about what what's going on in a kind of learn learners mindset and not sort of where you see the nuance in differences and find patience and empathy, that those things come from a regulated place. Like those things come from a place where you're like, I'm hearing now, present, right? Engage with the process, or feel shitty, and I'm sitting with that shittiness rather than trying to get rid of it by being angry or running away, or like freezing and saying yes to everything, you know?
Jacqueline
Yeah, yeah, yeah, particularly as you're saying that when I've been in that angry place, there is no being fully present in the moment, right? So I can think about times when I was like, screaming at my partner in the middle of the street, or like, on the phone or like, and, and in any of them, if I saw that, right, someone else doing that? It'd be like, Oh, no, like, No, you should not do that here. And like, oh, you know, but there I am now in the middle of the street, like screaming and shouting, because I'm lose all sense of where I am and who's around and what's going on. Right. I was like, so, so situated in that feeling of anger. So just again, wanting to acknowledge, I think that you're absolutely right, I think that the better path, if you will, is to sit with yourself first, like you said, around, why am I hurting? What do I need? And really fight the urge to lean into that anger?
Effy
Mm-hmm. Yeah, we need to make room for that, right, we need to make room for anger. And we need to make room for the sadness, and we need to make room for loss and grief. Right, there needs to be room for all. I agree, they just can't be the drivers of our behavior. Right? The idea is not to suppress that or wish it wasn't happening. I think as much as you can make space and make room, be generous with yourself, feel all those feelings, and let them come through you and go back to a regulated place and let your behaviors come from a responsive place of present plays a regulated place, not those other feelings.
Jacqueline
Yeah, I love that. I think that's right.
Effy
The other piece, I think, going back with, you know, starting with yourself, and starting from that place, just like with anything else, at the beginning of this process, I would say even you know, pre starting the process, as you wrap your head around, and your head and your heart around the fact that this relationship is coming to an end, and it needs to transition into something and you want to do it gracefully with dignity and honor and respect. You also need support around that fight. And it's important that you gather that support, that is friends and family and community and professionals if it's available to you. community matters, right? It doesn't have to be just, you know, non monogamous community, if it's if it's right for you, your church community, it's your book club, like whoever it is, you need to gather those people around you. So that the part of your nervous system that thinks that if this relationship ends, that you know, you won't exist anymore, that somehow you're going to die, and you're not going to be okay, you're not going to be safe, you know, the world is going to collapse around you, you can turn towards those people to help you soothe that part of you that is having that experience. And it's super, super important to have that support network around you.
Jacqueline
Right, because it's about feeling like you no longer belong or are cared for. And so if you can have reminders of that the other people Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Effy
Yeah. And also, because it is a triggering experience, even if you do it at the most conscious, most grounded way, it is a triggering experience, exiting a significant relationship is just hard. Even you do it the most smooth kind of way there is grief, any change in you know, this most change just comes with grief, even if it's changed towards good and I'm throwing air quotes at that there is still grief of what was right there is loss. So it is going to be hard for is going to be harder, it's going to be triggering. And in that state, it is really easy for us to be myopic, to just see the uncoupling to just see what's ending and not see beyond that, to see what's you know, what's beyond that there is life beyond that there's, there's hope beyond that we just become we can just become super myopic and get really submerged into that experience and can't even imagine anything beyond that.
Jacqueline
Yeah, I'm currently working with a client who wants to go through the conscious uncoupling process. And I've been approaching that work from the concept of three acts. Right so like in a story or play or movie, there are three acts. There's the setup, there's the conflict, there's a resolution in kink. There are three acts, there's the prep, there's the scene, there's the aftercare. And so essentially that those are the two pieces that we've been working on as the prep and the aftercare knowing that both have a clear sense of how can we prepare ourselves our words or emotions or intentions for that conversation? And then afterward, how are we going to care for ourselves? What kind of community do we need around us? To your point? What kind of food do we need around us? When we have not dealt with breakups? Well, what can we learn from that? When we are in a good place and we feel healed and comforted? How can we incorporate that? And so that's some of the work that we've been doing together is that prep piece and that aftercare piece and exactly as you're describing, what else can you be drawn to and pull to what other types of relationships have creative aspects of, of things that align with your passion? What else can you do to bring back some of your aliveness so that you don't get stuck in this place of sadness, of disappointment? And yeah,
Effy
it's so easy to do. It's so easy because it's so big in that moment. It's so hard to see beyond it. So And honestly, if it is available to you working through this with a professional coach, a counselor, a therapist, or psychologist, it just helps to have someone that is somewhat unbias, who can hold space that isn't going to tell you what you need to hear, but also not going to blame you. But to hold space for you and make you know, make room for your feelings and your thoughts and your stories makes a huge difference. If it is available to you, as well as an organic support network that is essential to have professional support around you as well can make it a tad easier.
Jacqueline
And you mentioned I know in the Episode Episode 99 that we did with Amber D'Amato about celebrating relationships and breakups and queer weddings. You talked about officiating an uncoupling so and so so I know you talked about it. But can you talk about that again, because it's making me think beyond having some support in the preparation and in the aftercare? You were present to support the conversation? Yeah, little piece?
Effy
Yes, yes, it might first polyamorous relationship with beautiful, beautiful people that really gave me a taste of it in such a way that that sort of really made me they just convinced me that was the right thing for me, unfortunately, came a time when the two people that I was dating, I was dating one of them, and they were dating somebody else. And that person was my first mentor ever, and I talk about her regularly, she has a wonderful, wonderful spirit. And that to me, it has set some incredibly high standards for a metamer relationship, when they wanted to uncouple they wanted some support. And they felt like I was in the best position to do that, because I was doing what I was doing. And I knew them really well. And I had been in the relationship as well. So the way that they uncoupled was very much, and I'm saying this suggested on brand, with Oh, the relationship they've had and they wanted to, they want to celebrate, they wanted to have the community around them. They want it to be honest, and full hearted and you know, loving towards each other. And they just knew that that relationship was no longer serving them as it stands in that moment, and they wanted to transition. So we had beautiful, long conversations where they said all the things that they wanted to say to each other, the intention of that conversation was not to litigate, right. It wasn't to say, Well, you said this, I said this, it was the intention was set to say here are all the things that I want to say to you when you receive them, and vice versa. And here are some of the questions that I have that I want to answer, then I want to hear the answers and not have anything back to say that is to to litigate to disparage or anything like that. And I was a part of that, that setup. And it was it was beautiful.
Jacqueline
And so that conversation took place in front of the community.
Effy
No, they wanted to have the conversation in private. So the three of us sat down, that makes more sense.
Jacqueline
I was like, wow, I was listening.
Effy
Okay, all right. Okay, so there were two parts of this one was the actual conversation they had and that wasn't private, we got cozy on a mega bed, true story. And in our onesies, it was comfy, and we had this long conversation. And my job is just to make sure they stayed with their intentions because it's so easy to get triggered. And like take unnecessary deep dives at that point in the relationship. So my contribution to that was to just keep people on track, keep them on their intention, keep it respectful and loving and full of dignity. And we did that and everybody felt closure and we hugged it out and it was you know, beautiful and light. And then the second part of that is they wanted to throw a con Just uncoupling party, and they wanted to invite all the friends all the community announced the fact that they were now uncoupling. And it was a joy just full of fun experience where people came. And, you know, we all spoke a little bit, they explain why they're uncoupling. And they thanked each other. And they told each other that they loved each other. And they also addressed the community, they said, you know, this is why it's happening. They said, how they want to be supported, you know, it was important to them that the close community that we were in, wasn't disrupted by this. They said, We still love each other. And, you know, we might need to take space from one another. But we will manage that. Please don't feel like you can't invite both of us to things you don't need to take sides. This is you don't need to cater for uncoupling, we will ask for help. And we might choose not to come to things because we need to take up space, but it's not your responsibility. And at the same time, we might come to you and we might be crying and upset. You know, we might even though we might, in that moment, speak poorly, poorly of the other person. That's not like in our wise minds. That's not what we want. So like, please hold space, but don't feel like you need to take sides and you need to badmouth the other person or anything like that. So it was a really, it was really wise and honest conversation. And then we had a massive party afterward. Yeah, that was one of the best ways I've, I've seen it done.
Jacqueline
That's amazing, particularly the peace around having conversations with friends and family around how to support you, but also how to interact. We've all been in that situation, either that we've been on the side of, you know, I've been really close to the families of my partners. And when we've broken up, that's it, those relationships are now severed. Or at least for me, though they were and same with with partners in my family. And that felt really strange, I think to everybody, or being on the side of you are friends with a couple and they break up and now you lose one of those friends and you don't speak to them anymore. And that's really challenging. And so I love that they that they did not make people choose. And I love that they help them see how to move past the awkwardness and say this is actually what we need from you. And this is how we're going to show that was. That's fantastic.
Effy
Yeah, no, it was definitely exemplary. Also, I think when we talk about conscious uncoupling, it's often set with mono normativity in mind, right? So we think about conscious uncoupling, meaning it's couples based and this couple is uncoupling. And the Couplehood is dissolving, right? This also happens in non-monogamous communities and also couples in polyamorous structures and poly cules. Right? Yeah, that's fair. Do you then have to think about all the other Metamora is like people, other people that you're in a relationship with, and maybe they're in a relationship with each other, right? So if you're listening to this, like, and you're going through an uncoupling or relationship transition in an in a non-monogamous structure, this piece is also relevant for you, you might need to have conversations with your partners with your metaphors and let them know what's going on. And also agree on what it means for them or let them tell you what it means for them as well.
Jacqueline
Yeah, we can we should do a whole other episode also on supporting a partner through their breakup or uncoupling with someone else, because that is a very interesting process, at least for me, that was a very interesting experience to be supportive, watch their watch her pain, and be there for that. And yeah, and figure out now this Metamora that I grew relationship with now now what happens and what does that look like? I think that's really fair. Yeah.
Effy
Yeah. And the same with kids, right? I mean, if you're a couple, if you're co parenting couple, and you uncouple, the fact that you need to manage childcare is a no brainer, right? You've done this, you've, you've divorced from your husband, you have a beautiful daughter together. So you will never be able to like sever contact properly because you have to manage your little one together. I think sometimes that's a no-brainer. However, if you're not a co parent, but you're in a relationship with somebody, and they have kids and pets and everything else, like it gets messy, and you need to kind of think about all that stuff. Yeah. And the part of this like uncoupling situation.
Jacqueline
My wife and I have talked about that. I mean, there's we're not in a place where we're thinking about uncoupling. But we have talked about and have acknowledged with each other that if there ever becomes a time when we feel like our relationship structure should shift in order for us to thrive as individuals that we're open to that and we've talked about well, what does that mean for my daughter and would they still spend time with each other and you know, what would that look like and her fate my wife's family who's now become my daughter's family? What is that? What how does that work out? So we've had some conversations about it is it's it's It's hard. And it feels good to have those conversations in a secure space, as opposed to having those conversations, you know, in a place of hurt.
Effy
Yeah, no, exactly, exactly. And I think the approach that will make that possible is to move into a generous and generative place as you are as you are navigating this, right. So, you know, essentially D personalizing the experience and recognizing that your value system and your partner's value system don't align. It's recognizing that it's not about the individual, it's not that you're a bad person, it's not that I'm a bad person, it is that the things that I need, the things that I value, that will nurture and support my thriving state, and my partners don't align. Right. So that is a generous position to take.
Jacqueline
Yeah, so yes, I'm sitting with it now, because I don't know if I've ever thought about it that way, that as opposed to thinking about all the ways in which they have wronged me, and all the poor choices that they have made or are making, what I hear you saying is, think about it from a place of these are the things that they seem to value, right now. They seem to value, whatever XYZ and I don't value those things, I value these other things, or I value those things in a different order. So as opposed to looking down at behavior, trying to look at it from a place of oh, we now value different things. And we need to align our lives around those values. And that may mean they're not together.
Effy
Exactly, exactly, that you might find that those values are the clash, or for some reason, can't coexist. Right. And to D personalize the experience, I think is important. And that is you know, going back to becoming generous by taking a generous position saying, okay, this person is the person that neither bad nor good. They have a value system don't align with my value system in my needs. And what can we create from that place? Right? That is a generative play, like given those things. Now we accept those things. I'm not fighting you. With my value system. I'm you know, I'm not trying to adapt to your value system. We've agreed that we're now going to go our separate ways. What can this relationship look like going forward? Yeah, I think that is really important.
Jacqueline
Man, this, this is like some ninja level like stuff here. Like you. For all of you out there who have done that. Incredible. First, please write us and tell us about the experience, the good, the bad, the ugly, so we can learn learn from that. But it does help me reflect on thinking about the divorce with my with my ex husband. And we went out to dinner the other day while my daughter was in gymnastics to catch up on, you know, all the thing after school and summer camp and doctor's appointments and all the things. And there were moments in the conversation where I thought, oh, yeah, I can see why we were together. And then there were other moments where I was like, oh, yeah, no, I can see why we're not together. And it's almost a decade now since since we've been together. But there's still things that feel unresolved questions that have been unanswered stories that are in my head, I imagine the same for him. And I, I don't know if we're ever going to have an opportunity to have those conversations maybe in time. But I do look back and wish that I would have had the skill sets, and the emotional intelligence, and the partnership in it, you know, having had him engaged in this, because this would have been a much more beautiful way of honoring all that we had in our marriage than some of the really more ugly conversations that we ended up having. And so I feel thrilled that we're friends now we live within walking distance from each other, and things are good, but there was a few years there that were really hard. For sure. And you know, if I could go back, I would do it differently. And I have been thoughtful about how could I take these lessons? And how May May we be able to have a conversation like this in the future?
Effy
I mean, that makes sense, right? I think the important thing to note here, though, or I should say the important thing not to miss here is where you are right now, not only of the skill sets and the knowledge base that you have but also because you are in a safe, secure, grounded place with your other relationships. Anything is extra hard if you're a monogamous person, and you've just uncoupled from a significant relationship. And you're sort of wobbly, right? And if you don't have a good support network that really anchors you making you feel safe and secure and grounded. I think it's even if you have all the skills in the world and all the knowledge it is hard to navigate this stuff and I think that's why you know, step one of conscious uncoupling is to Get clear that this is happening. Like, accept the fact that this is happening. And then reach out for a support network and really anchor yourself mentally, emotionally, and in your nervous system like neurologically, and it is going to be okay and that you are safe. And that is at the core of it. And that's really what matters. And I think where you are, now you have two beautiful relationships that serve you in different ways. And you're grounded in your purpose and your work and all those things, which on some level, is grounding you and making you feel safe. So you can kind of say, well, I would you know, I wish I had these conversations. And I think where you are now is probably very different than where you were.
Jacqueline
Yeah, yeah, I think that's true and all fair. I think I'm in a place now where I really would want to listen and learn. And I think at that point, I was not in that space. And frankly, I don't know if he really would have engaged in this process. And that's a question that I've gotten from folks is, what if you're, the person that you're with does not want to go through conscious uncoupling? Right? Like, do both people need to be bought in order for this process to happen?
Effy
I mean, that's the ideal, beautiful version, right? Yeah, but not really, right. Because ultimately, even when it is the two people doing it, they're doing it for themselves. So if the other person isn't participating, that's really on them. I think you can do it so you can still do your piece, right? You can get clear and get grounded and call upon your support network and listen, and you'll learn and examine and look for insight and focus on growth and healing. You still go through all those steps, you know, and you do it for yourself, and you do it for yourself with or without your partner, or ex-partner.
Jacqueline
Yeah. So whether you decide to formally go through a conscious uncoupling process or you take elements of this concept, and you allow that to guide your intentions and actions and reflections as a couple or individually, just know that there can be a different kind of ending apart from slamming doors and never speaking to each other. Again, there's an opportunity for immense insight and growth, and healing as you transition out of your significant relationship. If you want to continue this conversation with us, then the best way to do that is via our Facebook group, you can find us on Facebook, we are curious foxes, you can also join us on Instagram, where we are going to give previews of what is coming up. In the next episodes, we're going to do some q&a and some polls, and other ways of connecting with you all via Instagram. So find us on Facebook and Instagram both that we are curious boxes. If you want some behind-the-scenes from this and other episodes, then you got to go on to Patreon. That is where we do bonus episodes. We do you know Effie, Jackie, after our interview, where we sometimes get a little more honest, even that we do on the podcast because it's a smaller audience. And so you can go on there you can find access to all of our past workshops, all on Patreon. At we are curious boxes. If you enjoyed this conversation and want more of it, then please like or follow us in whatever podcast platform you're using right now. Please be sure to give us a rating leave a comment, and share all of the things that will allow us to continue to change the noise and challenge the status quo and love sex and relationships. And then, of course, we want to hear from you not only in your comments on Instagram, and Facebook and via the podcast apps, but you can reach out to us directly by sending us an email or a voice message at listening to we are curious foxnews.com Or you can record a question for the show by calling us at 201-870-0063.
Effy
This episode is produced and edited by Nina Pollack, with whom we have no intention of uncoupling from our intro music is composed by dev so we are so grateful for that work. And we're grateful to you for listening. As always, stay curious friends. Rolling, we're rolling.
Jacqueline
Okay, all right. See for the record, Scarlett. If something happens, there's a ghost in the machine.
Effy
There's a ghost in the machine. Okay. This episode is produced and edited by Nina Pollack, with whom we have no intention to do this episode is produced and edited but Ah, okay. Curious Fox podcast is not and will never be the final word on any topic was solely aimed to encourage curiosity and provide a space for exploration through connection and story. We encourage you to listen with an open and curious mind and we look forward to your feedback. Stay curious friends Stay curious curious curious and curious. Stay curious. Stay curious.
Still Curios?
