Ep 104: Erotic Blueprints and Sexual Self-esteem with Jessie Fresh (Revisited)
Art by @caprikado
This week Effy and Jacqueline revisit an episode with Jessie Fresh all about aligning with your Erotic Blueprint to nurture your sexual self-esteem. They are curious about:
Why is pleasure important?
What gets in the way of pleasure & fulfilling sex?
How to increase sexual satisfaction?
What are Erotic Blueprints and how do they affect our sexual self-esteem?
Guiding us this week is Jessie Fresh:
Jessie a certified Sex and Relationship Coach who helps women and couples create a deep, intimate connection so they can experience the mind-blowing sexual pleasure they so deeply crave. Using a unique technique to help her clients understand their deepest sexual desires, she coaches them to experience intimacy and closeness where there are no limits on time, space, and love. Jessie’s mission is to end the unnecessary suffering that too many people endure because of the shame and guilt they feel about sex.
To find out more about Jessie Fresh on IG @JessieFresh.
To find more about Effy Blue and Jacqueline Misla, follow them at @wearecuriousfoxes, @coacheffyblue, and @jacquelinemisla on Instagram.
If you have a question that you would like to explore on the show, reach out to us and we may answer your question on one of our upcoming episodes. Leave us a voicemail at 201-870-0063 or email us at listening@wearecuriousfoxes.com
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TRANSCRIPT:
Effy
Welcome to the Curious Fox podcast for those that challenging the status quo and love, sex and relationships. My name is Effie blue.
Jacqueline
And I'm Jacqueline Miss La. And in this episode, we were revisiting a conversation that we had with Jessie fresh about how to develop a language and deeper understanding of our sexual pleasure using the erotic blueprints.
Effy
This is one of our most popular episodes actually. And for good reason. It has so much juicy insight and knowledge and practical guides. And it's a great one. It's a great one. This was also one of our first episodes when we were baby podcasters and didn't have the gear or the knowledge to have the audio we have now. So do excuse us. It is excellent, with excellent content and a great conversation. And we love Jesse fresh. So we thought we'll put it out there again.
Jacqueline
Yeah, it was fantastic, which is one of the reasons why we want to revisit it today. After the conversation that we had last week with Dr. Donna Oriowa about social conditioning and the impacts on our self-concept and our sexual self-esteem. We wanted to take a look back at this discussion with Jessie fresh so we can re-explore how we reconnect with our bodies to discover what we want what we need what feels good outside of external influences. In addition to being a fantastic human being, Jessie fresh is a certified sex and relationship coach who helps women and couples create a deep intimate connection so they can experience the mind-blowing sexual pleasure that they deeply crave. Using a unique technique to help her clients understand their deepest sexual desires. She coaches them to experience intimacy and closeness where there are no limits on time, space, or love and light. Curious box. Jessie's mission is to end the unnecessary suffering that too many people endure because of the shame and guilt said they feel about sex.
Effy
Enjoy the conversation. Hi, Jesse.
Jessie Fresh
Oh, my gosh, I could listen to both of you talk.
Effy
Thank you for being here. We love talking about pleasure.
Jessie Fresh
Thank you. It's one of my favorite pastimes.
Effy
Yeah, particularly now.
Jacqueline
I mean, we started this conversation before the podcast talking about the civil unrest that is happening, the emotional unrest that is happening, all of the things that are happening just in this kind of global moment, and how there can be some escape and really looking at joy and finding moments of pleasure and digging into who we are and exploring that. And so Effie, and I constantly try to do that in our work and with our clients. And I'm really excited to learn from you some more techniques and tools around how to lean into and understand my pleasure.
Effy
Yeah, yeah. And before we get there, I'm really curious. Jessie, how did you get into this business?
Jessie Fresh
Yeah. Well, I looked up one day, how to female ejaculate. And that was on YouTube, I think 10 years ago, right as YouTube was starting, and I found a mentor. And it was the first time that I had ever found information about pleasure, that was positive. And I actually fell into that person's YouTube hole for like a good five hours and then told every single person I knew and that's what stemmed this curiosity around pleasure and my pleasure and how I could put it in my own hands. Literally. That just opened up doors and I ended up following that person. That is the mentor that I followed Jaya Ma, who was a somatic sexologist that I followed for many years and after she had found the erotic blueprints, at that point, I was in the first functioning healthy relationship of my adult life. I had a history of being highly codependent and picking the total hunks that treated me like shit. And I was in a relationship where I finally was attracted to the person that really treated me really well. We had sex that sometimes would be awesome, sometimes would be great. And a lot of times would be like totally missing the mark. And so I felt really frustrated because I was like, wow, I found like, I found someone that was that treats me well. And now, are we incompatible? Like is, is toxicity the thing that I need in order for sex to be hot? And that's not something that I wanted to believe in. And so that's when I leaned into this information even more of like, okay, if if we're not matching up, and if we love each other greatly, then how do we find each other's match in terms of speaking about it, because we ran into so many bumps of me feeling really rejected, both of us feeling rejected, then anger, showing up frustration, anything that intended to be a hot, sexy night that ended up in me, like, having my fists clenched in bed was a total fail in my mind. And when I run into failure, I tend to try and find the solution. So the erotic blueprints and leaning into pleasure was the beginning of that.
Jacqueline
Wow, amazing. And I love that you share that because I do think that there is some myth and storytelling around the toxicity equals great sex. And then the the partners that we have, that we argue the most with, and something that that's like that passion then translates into sexual intimacy. And that you may have to treat that for stability, that what you have find someone where there is a healthy, loving rapport, that over time that will become stale and stagnant, and you know, sex will be bad. And so I love the idea of person naming that, but then saying, Actually, there are ways and strategies and tools and ways to play that feels fun, because sometimes, you know, we talked about this in terms of the work, when you're working on yourself in your world, when you relationship, it can feel like so much work. And so being able to find a practice that is work, but play, I think is really interesting. I'm curious to find out more. Yeah,
Effy
yeah, I mean, there's definitely a lot of misunderstanding about passion, like we think passion is and what it looks like and, and how it affects our affects our sex lives and our pleasure, which isn't necessarily not necessarily all, there are kind of intertwined but not the same thing. I'm curious, why do you think why do you think pleasure is so important?
Jessie Fresh
Pleasure is so important, because it's what helps us live full, fully alive lives. It's what keeps us activated. It's what keeps us going. I know that when I live a life that's deprived of pleasure, my body aches, my mind is tortured. I am more achy in my body. I've had a mystery illness when I was younger, that was created by me, I believe, from the amount of stress and burnout that I was creating for myself. And so that's the direct exposure that I've had to like, Okay, if you don't prioritize rest, happiness, balance in your life, then you're compromising your health, your stability and your wellness. That's like the deeper end of it.
Effy
Sure, sure. I think to an extent that pleasure, and now we're talking about this is making me I'm realizing that there's, there's definitely a school of thought that stigmatizes pleasure as well. And I don't mean just sexual pleasure, but just pleasure in life, that it is somehow indulgence and it's somehow excess. It's sometimes extra, you know, and it's selfish.
Jacqueline
And it's, you know, particularly female pleasure. Right. Exactly. Exactly.
Effy
Exactly. And if you're seeking your pleasure, you're you're headedness, and and there's something, there's something wrong about that, rather than kind of what I'm hearing you say is it's like, no, it's your lifeforce.
Jessie Fresh
Every cell in your body is wired for pleasure. And we deny that often. I like the term healthy hedonism.
Effy
Yes, yeah.
Jacqueline
Part of what you said that's really important too, is there's there becomes a disconnect with our bodies as a result of that. So what you described was that some of them and I had this experience as a young person who had a lot of like stomach issues, go to the doctor and a doctor, and nothing's wrong, nothing's wrong. Now, certainly understanding that that was really a manifestation of anxiety, and understanding this disconnect between how we are feeling and how that's manifesting in our body, and how we can actually leverage our body to impact our feelings and where we hold tension and all those types of things. And again, I think certainly this is broad for all folks with all gender identities, but I think those who are identified as women are who identify and show up in the world as a female. There's an extra set of pressure, societal pressure around our bodies and around legislating our pleasure. And so to your point, being able to connect those things was in be in ourselves and actually enjoy ourselves harder sometimes I think then. So give me a sense of that, like, what do you think is getting in the way of the pleasure of sex, great sex?
Jessie Fresh
Well, as you had just said, the first of all the relationship that we have with our body, which I have plenty of clients that are like, you want me to tell you what sensations I feel in my body, I don't know what you're talking about. So even cultivating that relationship with like, what am I actually feeling can be really difficult. That's something that I had to learn as a young adult, it's something that after that illness, I was to overcome that illness, I had to really listen. And so listening was part of that, listening to what, what I'm feeling mentally, physically, emotionally, acknowledging it, because I was so used to completely denying my feelings, my thoughts, anything that was going on in my body. And I think that's something that in our culture, we're taught to, well, I grew up in Southern California, and definitely the mentality there is like, you need to work and keep up with the Joneses. And I'm sure in New York, it's very similar that you push aside your needs to like, keep up. And therefore you're not, you're not listening to what your needs are, or what your body needs, or it's not possible to keep up with that lifestyle and take care of yourself.
Effy
For sure, I mean, yeah, keep up with the Joneses, or a desire to achieve like, be very achievement focus at any cost. And, and also, I think, you know, as women in the workplace, you know, being all about your output, your productivity, you're you know, and not necessarily embodying yourself, embodying your, you know, embodying the body, that you're in embodying your sexuality, those things are always seen to be either getting in the way, or you manipulating the situation in the workplace. So I think definitely, culturally, there's a lot of things in the way. Right. And I think, also, personally, I mean, I have, I have definitely disconnected from I had, I had been very disconnected from my body due to just my own trauma. And, you know, I think when we talk about pleasure, we do have to kind of have a side conversation about pleasure about trauma. Because that's, that's ultimately kind of, I find the root of what gets in the way is some sort of trauma. And I didn't realize how disconnected I was from my body until I reconnected, and it was like, oh, there's all this information. And I've been ignoring, sending, it's like white noise that I don't understand. And then once you do that, once you get that body, body-mind connection restored, and it's something that I still have to work on. Of course, I can, you know, I can easily disconnect. And this is kind of where my strongest, I believe I hold on to a belief that my strongest muscle was my brain. So the more stress I'm under, the more things I need to get done, and the more I retreat into my brain. And then, therefore, it reinforces that my brain is my strongest muscle, you know, and I have to take a real making, I have to make a real effort to like, No, you are more than your brain, you have to connect with your body, you need to connect with your feelings. You need to put all that information together, and then make decisions. Love that. Yeah, yeah. No, it's a lifelong practice, for sure. Yeah.
Jacqueline
And so we were talking a little bit about what gets in the way. I'm interested now in thinking through some talking with you about tactics, like okay, so how do we increase it? How do we increase our own sexual pleasure we do that in, in a partnership or in a relationship I'm interested in like writing, let me get my notepad like, what are those? What do we do, Jesse?
Jessie Fresh
Yeah, so the beautiful thing is that what I'm teaching in the pleasure mastery workshop is the beginning of the foundational work to understanding your pleasure. And, and in that there are the five erotic blueprints. So there that's a framework to understand basically, your erotic sexual personality type. And each erotic personality type has very specific blocks that show up based on how you are wired in your nervous system for pleasure. So for example, if your mind is overactive, there are certain things that you can do to lessen your mind chatter. So if your if your blocks are that your mind is continually showing up, we need to focus on relaxation and the things that get you relaxed. So if that means taking a two hour walk in nature before you have a sexy date with yourself, that's part of the foreplay. Part of your history involves trauma. We need to and that is what blocks you then we need to create the safety that allows you to feel like everything is taken care of all of the agreements have been said. Everything has been negotiated and my body feels safe. If you are I'm trying to think of other blocks like if you're orgasm driven if you're like we're going wanting to have sex and we're going to orgasm and that hijacks your experience because you're then feeling scripted or feeling like, you're just going straight to the accelerator pedal. There's ways in which you can slow down, take in the rest of the experience through your senses. That takes a lot of discipline for the people that are orgasm hunters handle, acknowledging before you even begin of like, okay, we have this much time we have we live in like a time scarcity bubble. And when we can acknowledge like, there's plenty of time, we can relax into this, we can explore that can really help in terms of the orgasm hunting.
Effy
I'm curious, the wiring, the way that we wired for pleasure is this. This is pure, nerdy curiosity. Is this like, is this like, what we call like characters and disposition? Or is it something that develops?
Jessie Fresh
As a part of, you know, through a set of experiences do you know, it's, it's certainly both. I know that for myself, I've been five of the erotic blueprints since I started this journey seven years ago. So what has shown up for me is that, I recognized where I was at, at the moment, when I first found it. And then as I experienced more, as I lean into that pleasure more and give myself more of it, expansion happens. And then I pop into something new and a new experience. So it depends. It can be caused by traumatic experiences, it can be caused by hormonal experiences, emotional, physical, or everything. So all of those things have influenced how I have shifted also, for like, a tangible example is that when I first began this journey, I was like, I just want to caress, that would really turn me on. Yes, I need the room to be perfect. That's what I need. And that's a specific blueprint. That's the central blueprint, they need to be turned on by having their senses ignited. And I said that, because that's what I truly believed. But that's not what my body actually wanted. That's the script that I had taken on of what I thought women need. So I would ask my partner, like, give me that that's what I need, then it'll be turned on. And they're like, I'm giving you that and you're not getting turned on, you're actually getting like incredibly picky. You are like completely clenching in your body. You're not listening to your body. So what is that about? And I would get really frustrated because there was a disconnect. And then what I realized when I went to my coach training, is they encountered the same thing I said, I like caressing, I want the mood to be just right. And after about 10 minutes of these other coaches testing sensations on me, one of them threw down their clipboard and was like, put your fucking hands above your head right now. Don't you move? And my whole body had a very different experience. It lit up, I was giddy. I was squirmy, I was so excited. It was like, I don't know, like the first day of Christmas kind of feeling. But like that amount of excitement of just like joy. And that's when I realized, Oh, I had been scripted and what I thought I needed. And now I'm exposed to like psychological kink. And that's what turns me on. Okay. And then leaning into that and seeing what shows up from there. And that has just morphed and morphed and morphed, which is really beautiful. Because you can then have some kind of influence in your, in your erotic expansion.
Effy
Mm hmm. For sure. That's interesting, because when we talk about this, when we have a workshop coming up, and we knew that we were going to host you on the podcast, so it becomes like the topic of conversation around like around the team. And also just because I talk about my work all the time for pleasure and heavy annoyance of all my friends. All I talk about but so it was like people just like what is this thing like what is this but you know, blueprint, the erotic blueprints. And I've been short handing it by saying, you know, everybody knows about the love languages, it's essentially the love languages but for your, for your, your erotic expression. And it's just finding out how it manifests and how it can be, how it can be received, and, and shown and shared. And so the thing that I always say about love languages to people as well that it is that you can be multilingual that you and you know people always like I'm this unlike great. And you can be other things too, you can you can either tap into that frequency or you can learn and you can grow into and ideally you get to a place where you can receive and show love and all the frequencies all the time in every old all the ways. I'm hearing a similar sort of similar thing about the blueprints. When I when you're saying like you can start from there and you can explore and you can grow and you can learn you can expose yourself and you can find yourself sort of flowing through off eyes, right? There's five of them.
Jessie Fresh
Yeah, one of them is all five. And that's like the epic Holy Grail is the shapeshifter. Where that is your multilingual you can then speak every single blueprint, you can receive every blueprint and you want to explore it all. You want the variety, creativity. Yeah, you, you are the awesome person, that the orgy because you can recognize everyone's needs and fulfill those, and you're able to play for hours. Yeah. And not anyone.
Jacqueline
Not at all.
Effy
Jackie, did you do that? Do you do the quiz?
Jacqueline
Because there's one thing that we will definitely include in the show notes is the quiz so that people can find out. And then certainly, if they want to know more, we'll tell you more at the end. But Jesse will be joining us on June 8 on June 10. When did you turn it so that we can explore this some further. But I wanted to touch base because, in our last episode, we had a conversation with Angie Gan around attachment styles. And similarly, we have the dialogue around that it's not your Myers Briggs, it's not your star sign that these are we can show up differently depending on our level of growth, depending on which partner we'll with, depending on again, this sounds really similar. And so I'm interested if that's been your experience with folks who have multiple partners, that they may show up with one particular blueprint type with one partner and show up with an in another dynamic in another with another partner. And so I'm interested in your observation there with your with yourself or with your clients.
Jessie Fresh
Mm hmm. It depends, like there's some people that are very fixed where they feel like no, I am, I am this this way. And this is how I am regardless of what partner I'm with. But in my experience, I see the relationship phase that you're in, like, if you're in the honeymoon phase, all of your anticipation and longing and waiting is going to be bubbling. And therefore that might be fulfilling one of your blueprints. Like in in new relationships, I'm really great at having the like, stripped me of my clothes, and let's immediately get down to it. Because there's all of that is fulfilled in terms of what I need of the anticipation. But once that phase has gone on, once the honeymoon phase is gone, that's when I still need connection, anticipation, the longing and waiting and creating that when you have that at your fingertips is more difficult. It's more mysterious, because once that's gone, you're like, Oh, but I lost the excitement. So that can be interesting in relationship phasing. And I think that of course, everyone's chemistry brings out others chemistry. So having partners with different blueprints can draw out, what's what's longing to come out for you as well.
Jacqueline
Can we dive into that a little bit, I'm interested in two things that you mentioned there, one is kind of an energetic or maybe stylistic mismatch. And that I think could exist either in the story that you described with with yourself in your, your partner around that there was a mismatch, or just circumstance, oh, I know, my, my partner and I, the other day, I was like, let's be warm and cozy. And they were like, let's just do the damn thing. Like, we kept trying to slow down speed up and like we couldn't figure out like how to get on the same frequency. So I think that can happen. So I'm interested in talking about how to regulate the mismatch. And also to your point around relationship phases. It is it is a very sad and mournful day for me when NRA, when new relationship energy ends, like I, I am in my I'm in my that's my Christmas morning, every day is to have that level, and every partner I'm with is like it's gonna go away, like, you know, this, this, this has like no holding on as long as possible. But when that phase ends, and when that kind of energy and excitement all those chemicals go away, and how do we spice that up? So those are two things I'm interested in exploring with you kind of the mismatch, and then how do we potentially spice things up and I'm using air quotes when we've moved out of the beginning honeymoon period, new relationship energy phase,
Jessie Fresh
I'm a strong believer that Inari and when someone tells me when I'm in a honeymoon phase, and they're like, Oh, you're just in a phase. I'm like, fuck a lot, because I want to live in it forever. Like don't ruin my bubble. And if this is the only like Pfizer drug that I'm willing to back is like if they give us a pill for NRA, because new relationship energy is something that I I think is Yeah, right behind it. It's what makes life worth living in my mind in a relationship.
Effy
So let's bottle it, let's bottle it, and give it out for free.
Jessie Fresh
It's just like a little bit of serotonin, a little bit of dopamine, a lot of oxytocin, a lot of adrenaline, all of those things put together and just put into a cocktail. Or a tincture.
Jacqueline
Oh Whatever.
Jessie Fresh
We can make a home homeopathy. Sorry. Okay, so when when there's mismatch desire, the great thing about the erotic blueprints is it. First we practice showing up for ourselves. And by showing up for ourselves and our own needs and desires, it helps us build that resilience and become more fed. So if you're, if you were to look at like a resource spectrum of your sexuality, the way that I look at it is that when you're, when you're fed, you're like in a neutral place, kind of like when you're like, I think of this as being hangry. So when you're hungry, it's like, you can eat a meal, and you can go a couple of hours, but in a couple of hours, you're going to be hungry. Again, when you haven't been feeding yourself, well, for a while you get hangry. And what shows up is the like, anger, frustration, quick temper, those kinds of things that show up that you're like, Oh, I didn't know that this was related to hanger, or to hunger. And then on the other side, say that you're eating fully, and having snacks and fully nutrient dense and everything, then you're going to feel like you can go for longer periods of time without nourishment, because you're so full, like when you're on a keto diet or something. So I tried to look at sexual fulfillment in that way. So if you're looking at your fulfillment, how much are you showing up for yourself, so that when you show up to a partner, you're able to then fall into a match a lot easier, because you're not needing so much from them to get turned on, you're feeling more resourced, more, more relaxed, more turned on in life. So I guess that's the turn on Spectrum, if I could reverse what I said the turn on Spectrum is like, how much are you doing to support your turn on in your life. So like what I had said, it sounds like you you needed some coziness, and some like snuggly time and some kind of connection in that way. And because that's a need that you have to connect with your partner, maybe look in their eyes, feel the warmth of their skin, and just to really like breathe together. And, and that's a need that you have and your partner is voicing another need of like, okay, I feel connected very quickly, like let's get this on and connect in a different way. And for them, that's a different kind of blueprint, that's the sexual blueprint where when they're like, let's get into like the the genital touching and the body touching. And that's their need is that they want to feel really validated by exploring the body and having their genitals explored and having that be there, like it's their water, food, nourishment on a basic level. And so say that if you were to voice like, Hey, if you were to do the things that you needed, like if you were to be more snugly, in an off time, or to have to be like, I need more snuggles, like 50% of the time in life, I feel like rested, less anxious, and relaxed. And then therefore I can open up then that would be really helpful. Another thing that you could do in that moment, is that when your partner is like, no, let's just do this is you can be like, okay, but can we snuggle for like another 10 minutes, and I'll like, start to meet your needs, meaning like, you'll meet my needs by snuggling a little bit longer, and I'll meet your needs by beginning to like stroke your genitals. And that way it keeps them engaged. So the question, I'm circling back to the question, the question is, like, how do we meet each other's needs, when we're like missing the mark with each other, there's different ways that I'm going to teach you in the workshop of like how to meet each other's needs simultaneously, how to negotiate that so that you can show up and both get your needs met and then therefore feel fulfilled and opened up and ready to go. When that happens.
Effy
You know, what it made me think of Jackie you talking about was discussing this. One of the things again, in I think it was an anti guns workshop on the on the workshop she talked about, she made a really interesting and important distinction about that, how the your relational dynamics is separate from your sexual dynamics. And, and that, you know, you remember the tree, she showed us a tree that was wrapped up by IV versus a tree that was all like multi, you know, roots and connected to one another. So when I hear you say, when you when I hear you describe your experience and knowing a little bit about what's going on, it makes me wonder if your needs in the moment are relational needs or sexual needs.
Jacqueline
It's a beautiful point. I was thinking the same thing.
Effy
You're right, because I think I think in that moment, you're trying to meet your relational needs through cuddling and connection and not necessarily your sexual needs.
Jacqueline
Yeah, I think that's completely true. And I think now hearing kind of Jessie flush that out that that really that became clear to me that I think that that experience that I'm talking about was in a moment where my partner and I were kinds of In, in conflict trying to really we were it was like building safe space with each other still like there were some things that we were trying to navigate through. And I think for me it was a relational, I want to feel connected and leverage sex in order to do that. And for my partner, I think it was trying to avoid the conflict and ignore it. And to do that, and I think we both came to the sexual table, if you will, with different intentions around what we needed, because of the relational tension that we were experiencing. So I think that's completely fair, yeah.
Jessie Fresh
And I think I look at them as both sexual. I look at it, like even if you need snuggling and connection in a relational way, that's what's going to open the door for you to feel sexual and to feel relaxed. Your partner might be that blueprint that they need to get off in order to feel relaxed. So you're both trying to pull the connection and the relaxation, but one is driven in a very different way. That's interesting. That's really like you need relaxation. As foreplay, they need relaxation like, post-orgasm. Sure, that's such a great point. Love that relational part.
Jacqueline
But I have to say, I have to say that that I think that's really true. And I it's interesting to me, because we had a conversation recently with Stella Harris regarding masturbation, and I was thinking about my masturbation journey separate than my sexual partner sex journey. And I think that I feel that what you just described around relaxation, post orgasm, if you will, as my masturbation strategy, sexual strategy and like, so does that mean to certainly that exists within me, right? They exist within my blueprint type, if you will, but figuring out then how to leverage some of that in this space. And so that's interesting, really interesting.
Jessie Fresh
We also tend to self pleasure in a very specific blueprint that's not necessarily our own. So because of either being in a hurry, or having this script of that's what masturbation looks like. That we most people, when I ask them, like, oh, how do you? How do you self pleasure? They'll, they'll go, oh, I take a toy out, and I put it there. And then I say, Oh, is that is that really like what your blueprint would really enjoy? And they're like, No. And then when I asked them, oh, what would what would that enjoy instead? And they're like, well, probably like 90 minutes in the bath. Because I'm speaking from my experience, because I have that relationship with masturbation where I go, Oh, I really want to like, I really want to feel pleasure. I don't even say like, I want to get off. I want to feel pleasure. And so how do I do that? And there's a script that pops in that says, Okay, you're gonna get out the vibrator, and you're gonna put that there and you're gonna have an orgasm real fast. And my body hates that, like my body clams up and goes, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And so that's been my relationship to masturbation where I will avoid masturbation because I have this like, sexual bully going on. That's like, we're going to masturbate and we're going to like, do it fast. When I actually get to listen to what my needs are. It's like, I'm going to go in the bath for a good 90 minutes so that I can relax. And then I'm going to like, put on some music in my room and butter up my body with like, cacao butter and stuff that smells like aphrodisiacs. And then I'm going to dance in the mirror and like striptease for myself and seduce myself. And then I don't know what will happen after that. But maybe there might be some sexual things that happen. And all of that feels sexual to me. But what I'm saying is that often when we self pleasure, we focus on genitals, when really, we could play with a lot more elements that really satiate us.
Effy
I love that. I love that. The other part again, I just want to keep going down this path about what I love about what's coming up for me around the blueprint erotic blueprint that how it's actually very much anchored in your erotic experience. Right? Because I think, again, going back to all it all being intertwined, like your relational, your needs, your your triggers, all these things are on separate tracks, and they might run parallel, but they don't run on the same track. And I think having like having really digging deep and understanding your erotic, the erotic energy, your sexual expression, in some way, somewhat somewhat, aside from your relational dynamics, and understand like what turns me on, regardless of who is in, you know, like, how can I turn myself on, regardless of anybody else, where I am in a relationship, what kind of relationship with me and with whom I'm relating, but it's just about me soaking you might rhotic energy and really understanding what it is without getting clouded by other things.
Jessie Fresh
And I think one of the things that really attracted me to this idea of your erotic blueprint is it gives you all that agency to have the awareness while you are with a bunch of people in the orgy or while you're by yourself or while you're with a partner. You get to check in really quickly and go oh, what are my needs? Right? It now Oh, okay, this, this, this and this. And whether that's influenced by someone else or not that gets to be the play. Play is when you get to recognize your needs and play with others and see what shows up and be able to communicate that in a way that's simple and easy and fun.
Effy
Yeah. Just want to add to that, why would you think this idea of sort of validation through sex, right, being validated, or seeking validation through sex? How does that fit into the you know, this model of a Bloop, the erotic blueprint, because it makes me think that this is why I like almost like the purity of the idea or the blueprint that it is, it is about your like, erotic sort, power source. And then we kind of have these things that are attached that we attached to sexuality, like looking for validation, looking for very specific type of connection, validation of connection, validation of self worth, you know, validation of our worth within the relationship, right? So we like we seem to attach these things to our sexuality that what I'm hearing is not necessarily attached naturally, we kind of do it in our minds, right?
Jessie Fresh
That there so I'm I'm hearing as you say that I'm hearing all of the blueprints are validated by by very specific things. So for instance, the energetic blueprint is validated by connection. The essential blueprint is validated by like beauty. The sexual blueprint is validated by the the orgasm and the certainty that shows up in sex. The kinky blueprint is validated by the taboo. And the shapeshifter is validated by like, the buffet of it all the like newness and the discovery. I love that angle. Yeah, I love that. I love that. That's what they're all seeking in sex. And that's what they're getting from it.
Jacqueline
Yeah, what I hear you saying to Fe is about and FE and I are going to be collaborating on June 24, to do training around Know thyself, which, based on what you're saying, Jesse, and what we know, in our work is the foundation for everything right, knowing your needs, you know, and your desires, knowing the way that you show up in relationship having that that basic knowledge and foundation will certainly support everyone in the relationships. But what I also hear you saying then Fe is is that there is being able in the same way that we can partial out potentially a relationship needs and a sexual need is understanding why we're showing up to that space like, am I? Am I looking to be validated as you still care about me? Am I looking to be validated as we are still connected, and I'm trying to leverage sex in order to do that. And I feels like that is layered on top of what we're hearing. And what we're learning about in terms of the erotic blueprints around that there are some needs to be validated for connection or for touch or for beauty for variety, and being able to acknowledge that but also separate out those pieces, what is a need that is healthy, and maybe what's in need that's rooted in insecurity, or an attachment or something else that is disguising itself as a sexual need potentially, that is that tell me tell me? How you feeling about that? Does that make sense? Is that where you're at makes
Effy
sense. I want to kind of take it a step further and say, I'm going to say that needs aren't necessarily healthy or unhealthy. By just there isn't such a thing as a healthy or an unhealthy need. There is the strategies which we use to meet those needs are healthy or can be classified as unhealthy, unhealthy or serves what doesn't serve or adjusted and maladjusted. So I wouldn't necessarily say that is an unhealthy need. It's just how we go about meeting those needs. And in fact, when you were saying that what came up for me is That's amazing, if you know you have an understanding of your erotic energy through these blueprints, and you then have an understanding of oh, I have this is how I am you know, I know my blueprint suggests that maybe taboo is how I am validated, then you can say you can look at your life and your choices and say am I what am I doing anything in my life that is seeking to challenge this idea of taboos? And if I am are those the right decisions, right? Am I am I going and doing things that are classy, you know, can be classed as unhealthy? Or I know that about myself now I knew that taboo is something that turns me on is a way that I feel validated. Now can I what would be a healthy strategy that I can that I can come up with and you know, create, be creative, to meet that need. And then you can also it might give you an insight into like some of the maladaptive some of the not necessarily healthy ways of meeting that right. So maybe, I know, a taboo I can see like, if you're doing things that feel taboo, that that aren't necessarily like they're also happened to be illegal for example, I don't, I'm never gonna give you an example right now.
Jessie Fresh
There's like the taboo and not respecting other people's boundaries. Uh huh. You know, like Like there's I've had friends where we're at like a sex coaching convention and we're in the elevator and I have like, a choker on and we're on our way to like the sexy party and I'm feeling like, oh God, anyone that enters this, this space that has not consented, I'm violating their consent. And then my friend next to me being like, who cares about other people's consent, like we're having a great time. And that's, that's where I think that like the need to, like experience a taboo, but not checking in with everyone's like doing it in public and the public not agreeing to you walking your person around like a dog with a collar on? Is is the thing.
Effy
Right? Right, right. No, exactly. I love that. Yeah, that's exactly what I'm trying to say, right? If you consent, we get back, oh, it's going back to the consent. Are there ones consenting, and that you understand what you like, you understand these drivers and motivations that you might be unconscious to? Right. And I think what I'm wanting, the more we talk about this, the more I'm realizing, and I also totally like this idea of a blueprint now makes sense, right? Because and then once you understand your blueprint, then it's something to build upon. You know, it's like a, it's like a map, I do something called Five rhythms, which is a moving meditation practice, I talked about it. I talk about it a lot on the podcast, five rhythms has, has what they call maps. So similar idea, it kind of breaks the five rhythms then create a map and these like five pathways that also give you insight into, you know, what turns you on and what shuts you down, what are your blocks? What are your you know, so it's, um, I like anything that allows for self reflection, and not only self reflection that I get to know myself, but also self, also reflection that allows me to get to know other people. And I'm like, Oh, I show up like this. And I can see, maybe this person shows up this way, this way, in this way. And then you can be like, how do we collaborate? How do we then make it all happen, then it feels delicious, and warm, and, and sexy and hot for everyone.
Jacqueline
And what I heard you saying to Jesse, which I love is not only how do we collaborate in the in and I'm using air quotes in the bedroom, right? And Effie and I tried to do a lot of work around pushing back on that language, because like, a lot of times, it's not happening in the bedroom. Right. But to that actual end, that really, it begins before that. So leveraging the example that I shared around one and connection, that that could have started, you know, hours earlier, or we would have cuddled on the couch, or we would have taken a walk and held hands some other way of connection so that when we got to the space, where were you going to be sexual, then that meet need was met? And then I could, you know, explore another level of it, because I wasn't trying to meet that need in that space. Yeah. And so I think that's going to be one of my takeaways from this conversation is being thoughtful around what are the needs that needs to be met met to feel good in that space? And can they be met in advance of entering into that space? Or as a part of it's an elongated kind of part of it, but not necessarily at the moment of taking clothes off? Right?
Jessie Fresh
And can they just be expressed so that your partner also knows that that's something very important to you, that's a key ingredient to you being fully turned on fully, in the moment open to receiving and giving. When I think when a when you understand each other's needs, that's when you're able to go okay, like I can, I can be here for a little bit longer and, and like meet you in that way. Because I know it's really important to you if I want to have juicy sex, right?
Jacqueline
I'm going to do this thing, right? Massage your back. I'm going to give you a hand massage even because I know that's gonna be
Jessie Fresh
Yeah, right. The Fe that part about getting your needs met in like a backwards way is what I was talking about with the toxic relationships as I craved like this, like, oh, no, like, you shouldn't be sleeping with them. They're bad for you. And that meeting a lot of my psychological kink of like, okay, well, I'll text them, and we'll see if they respond. And that intense adrenaline rush that comes from, like, the catch the release, the like, this is taboo, like, oh, now I'm gonna hang out with them. And we're not going to talk about having sex, but the whole time, I'm going to be mentally seducing you. That all was me operating in my blueprint, not knowing what the hell I was doing. But knowing that it was super hot. And so now I work with clients that are like, Yeah, I'm attracted to like, people that are married or I'm attracted to the people that are off limits, or they're seeking that taboo factor and the waiting longing and anticipation in a way that they don't really, they're not conscious about it. Yeah, yeah, we work together to make sure that they're, they're getting those needs met before, right
Jacqueline
and the need is healthy, but the strategy is not right. Strategy to meet that need. That's a lot of sense. So let me go back to a question because we started talking about what to do with the mismatch. I'm interested in, you talked about different phases of relationships. When we get past the NRA phase, which some point the three of us want to work together to create the potion so that they can I'm committed to that. Right now until that moment comes, when that phase ends, are there strategies around how to spice more things up, or how to then create more pleasure rooted experiences with a partner after an array.
Jessie Fresh
Of course, there are so many practices, one of the practices that I really like is, which I don't mean to like take away all the spice and sizzle of this topic, but like planning time together, I'm prioritizing. Huge like especially for all the overachievers prioritizing time together is the biggest part. And then you get to add to all of that. So when you say, like, for instance, in my calendar, every Monday is a day where I am supposed to be like leaning into pleasure throughout the day. And then I have a very specific window of time, like from 6pm to 9pm, where I'm just supposed to surrender to whatever shows up in the moment that looks like pleasure, whatever that is, that's soaking my feet in hot water, if that's like, cleaning my house, so that I feel more like relaxed in my house. If that's taking a shower, it's, it can be anything, whatever shows up. So I think adding these little bits of like having the spontaneity window in there of there's no expectations, we're just showing up. But you can also add one of my favorite little hacks is an adventure date. So an adventure date has three different components to it, it has mystery, it has novelty, or naughtiness, and it has obstacle. So the mystery would be like, Hey, babe, I'm gonna this Monday night, like, I know that we have the spontaneity window, like, Don't worry, I have everything covered. You just need to show up hungry, and like, relaxed. So if you hear that you get to go, oh, shit, I need to be relaxed. Okay, what do I need to do to be relaxed in order to show up for this? The obstacle part is like, how can you make this less? How can you draw out the satisfaction and create a little bit of a challenge. So I've done that with like, giving people little love letters, or for people in quarantine, if you're like, we have nowhere to go, I put a blindfold on them. And I'll say like, Okay, I'm gonna lead you to this room. And that that obstacle creates the like, whoa, what's happening, this is fun, this is different, this is awesome. And then the, the newness or the naughtiness can be whatever you want to add in there. Anything that you've been like, we've wanted to try this for a long time, or you know how we've been talking about giving each other like hot oil massages for a while, or we've been wanting to try bondage, like those are the things that you can bring into the newness and those those three elements are what we seek in and our E. In when we're on first dates when when the adrenaline is high. And then when the oxytocin and the dopamine kick in and there's uncertainty going on. That's fulfilled by mystery obstacle and novelty or Nadina is a practicing that in long term relationships is super helpful and religion, like regularly and at least once a month, if not twice a month, where people are alternating giving.
Effy
I love it that I want to try this.
Jacqueline
Yeah, absolutely gonna do.
Effy
Yeah, I harp on about date nights, but just giving that kind of like, here's the the I do think that a big part of maintaining a healthy, thriving relationship is creativity. We talk I talk about all the time that creative problem solving being creative, which which to some people, it comes more naturally and for other people. It's you know, it's not as it's not as easy and it's not as it doesn't come as naturally and a lot of what we do here at Karis Fox is is the inspiration and permission part of it. The inspiration part of it is that is to get people's get give people inspiration to be creative to come up with their own ways of of really figuring these things out, you know, because, you know, if we've done a you know, we've just done a woodstove O'Hara's we've done a masturbation workshop right? So it's like okay, now the idea is that do you want to like take this evening and do mutual masturbation right this is this is your inspiration we just given you inspiration and information and by the way, we just sat through the whole thing as a community so permission so please like take the time now and take this evening you're here anyway you all primed get engaged, you know just get involved with some mutual masturbation right? It's you know, it's this is the idea and date nights is another one that was like, you have to have date nights. Well, you know, I tell these people then put it in your calendar like, stick to it like you stick to, you know, your kids soccer practice, right. You have to stick to this time on what you've just said that the sort of the structure of what you can do with that date night I think is so valuable, absolutely better than going to like the Italian or restaurant that you always go to and like, you know, eating too many carbs.
Jacqueline
You feel bloated and you want sex at that point, we did a podcast episode and had a workshop with Steve Dean who is an expert on dating. And one of the things that he did through the through the experience through the workshop, which was great was helping people first he asked people to think about ways in which they experienced self care. And so people talked about cooking delicious meals for themselves, or engaging in positive self talk or reading really excellent books and things like that. And he said, fantastic. And they made these whole lists about how people take care of themselves. And he said, Now turn those things into dates. How would you take the ways in which you give yourself pleasure and create a date experience, he's I take three of those things and put them together. And now you've created a date experience for someone else. And so what I hear is, let's first focus on what it is that we want to make sure that we're meeting our needs. Let's use that information to then understand our partners and what they need and to collaborate on evening around that. And then let's create a little bit of anticipation and excitement and naughtiness and some fun and replicate some of that NRV. Yeah. You've talked a little bit about your some of the work that you've done with clients, I'm wondering if you can share out kind of some of you know, maybe before and afters and experience that you had with somebody that you really helped them step into their sexual empowerment. And you saw that reflected in their life.
Jessie Fresh
Yeah, thank you. I have one, just, yeah, one really amazing client that has given me permission to share this. So there's that consent, this person was freshly out of a divorce, and that divorce was not the healthiest. And they had been sexless for over 17 years. And she had been having sex with herself, but never said anything to her partner. And so from emerging into this new singlehood, she was terrified. She was like, I don't know how to express to people what it is that I want. I don't know how to date people. Like how terrifying does that sound? I'm scared that people are gonna reject me for what it is that I want. So we work together and it was incredible. I did one session, I usually work with people over the span of like four to six months, because I really want to get you to your goals and have that embodiment last. So one of the sessions that we did is a discovery session where I take over 40 sensations that are all categorized into the different blueprints, and I map out where the highest arousal is on your body. And part of her highest arousal was on her kneecaps, and I took a metal spoon that was warm and traced her kneecaps. And the first reaction was I said, Okay, scale of one to five, how pleasurable is this? Because that's I'm using, like effective communication and like getting the feedback. And she goes, Oh, it's a four. It's a four and a half, a four and a half is like almost to orgasm. And my immediate reaction is like, because I'm the sex nerd. I'm like, Oh, my God, this is so cool. And her reaction is, how weird am I? Her immediate reaction is like, Whoa, what is wrong with me? So in that moment, I get to show up and go or, like, I get to change the story in the script. Like, how amazing is it that you get to be dating someone and when you like them, and you feel safe with them, and you're out to dinner, like, you get to go, Hey, by the way, so my kneecaps are this special place? Yes. And you wonder about Yeah, this is my superpower, I love tapping into and finding other people's erotic superpowers. Because sometimes we don't know that our ankles, our knees are the space like that person also preferred loss of space, like 16 feet of space to begin, like erotic approach. And so knowing these things, knowing that that's just how I'm wired, and just how she's wired, allowed her to really own that. She also had many desires to be in multiple relationships. And she was like, who am I to be in a multiple, like multiple relationships with many different partners. And so being able to see her now where she has, I think over three partners, who are all satisfying her in the kinkiest of ways in the sexiest of ways, like showing up for her and allowing her to have these experiences where she's talking about what it is that she wants firsthand. She's able to not have any shame about it, she's owning it and therefore she's experiencing erotic breakthrough after erotic breakthrough because she's owning her pleasure. And these these people are saying, fuck, yes, like, you're talking to me about it up front, and I'm down. Let's do this. So hearing her stories has been like my favorite testimonial part because she's frolicking now where before she was completely scared.
Jacqueline
Yeah, so that's amazing. Yeah, you were able to transform shame and insecure reality is as opposed to really seeing yourself. Yeah, you love that story.
Effy
So fun. And I think also just you sharing the people that she's, she's playing with their responses is like positive, like, Thank you for telling me. So I think it's also important, I think what gets in the way sometimes is that you're more worried about what reaction are you going to get? Yeah. When I start playing with somebody for sort of early on, I, you know, once we sort of cuddle and spend some time like skin on skin, I asked them, I say, Would you like me to tell you a little bit about my buddy? And? And, and, and they, you know, depending you know, who they are, and what kind of background they come in, you know, if they're coming from, you know, sex positive community, they're like, yes, please, you know, tell me a little. And then if they're not, it, there's definitely a pause of like, oh, like, what's about to come? You know, what am I getting myself into? Or they might not be used to? Talking, not talking about it. Yeah, be comfortable by just like about the topic. By the time I'm done. i The ubiquitously I get a thank you. Always, like, Thank you, thank you so much. This is amazing. I know, it's, I've never had anybody, like get up and leave. So if you can get that, I mean, I just, you know, personal experience, if you can get that if you're able to explain your desire and make requests, talk about your needs, and give people tips and clues and instructions on how to meet those needs. You're there.
Jessie Fresh
They're happy about it. Yeah, that's, that is the part that I hear most people reach out to me is they go, Oh, God, I, what do I need? I have no idea. What do I have no idea what I want. I like when if you were to ask someone, tell me about what your body likes, and they completely freeze up because they don't know, that's when I would just encourage you to reach out for support, there are so many people that can help you, I would love to help anyone in that position. Because it's just an education. It's just a discovery process. And you're not alone in that I hear so many people that don't know how to name their desires, or what it is that they like, or you could be like me where you're like, This is a script of what my desire is. And actually, it's just making you completely an orgasmic because you're following something that's not true.
Jacqueline
Absolutely. And we spend years and 1000s of dollars, learning about other subjects, learning about learning about others, and really spend very little time learning about ourselves, and really the pleasure and spend again, years and 1000s of dollars trying to seek out happiness and joy and pleasure without necessarily taking that time to do that work on ourselves. And so, again, you know, on June 24, if you're going to be tapping into Know thyself, and we're going to be doing that work with you on June 10, around the blueprint, really, it sounds like the most annoying answer when people are like, Well, what do we do first and then like, spend time with yourself and get to know yourself be like, No, I want to skip that part and just get to the, but that's really it really does start there. Really?
Effy
Absolutely. And if you want to learn more about erotic blueprint and how to gain a deeper understanding into your pleasure, do join us on Wednesday, June 10, where Jesse will be joining us at the virtual curiosity salon. She'll be teaching you all about your own erotic blueprints, needs and desires, as well as any lovers you'll encounter. Whether you're single, or you're single and craving satisfaction together and feeling alone or unfed, or hot and taking it to the next level. This workshop is sure to teach you something orgasmic erotic blueprints may be the foundation to greater understanding therefore greater sexual satisfaction and eventually pleasure mastery.
Jessie Fresh
And there's going to be a live demo in that class where I am taking another person teaching you everything that I just shared and showing you how to read their arousal in their body. So I basically get turned on to an orgasmic state. Like give you it's super duper fun, very do live demos.
Jacqueline
You can see me right you can see how excited yes live demos.
Jessie Fresh
My my roommate that is corn in quarantine with me who is single is like fuck yes for a live demo. It is the touch that she's getting. So I'm so fun.
Effy
I can't wait. And if you can not wait just like we are tickets are available on our Facebook page. Also in our Instagram bio. Also on our website by searching, we are curious foxes and it's we are curious foxes.com Our website and you can find tickets for Jesse's workshop and many others coming up over the next few weeks. We are taking over Wednesdays we are redefining hump day and we are encouraging you and providing you programming For Inspiration and permission to really take that day to learn, to be inspired to play to get in touch with yourself to connect with your partner or partners. Reclaim humped days, come and learn with us. Come and connect with us come and play with us.
Jacqueline
Yeah, I mean, we were talking about date night, right? Make Wednesday night date night for yourself, or for you and your partner partners show up on Wednesday, you know that something amazing is going to happen, we're going to have a workshop on erotic blueprints, we're going to have stuff on Attachment styles around stuff on masturbation, we're going to have stuff on knowing yourself we're gonna have, we're gonna have something really fun and engaging and interesting that you will have implementable takeaways, you will walk away from that session, you will close your zoom and close your computer. And we want to do something different as a result of it. And so if you can join us on June 10, be sure to get tickets if you can't join us. Or if you're listening in the future. If you're listening on June 11, to this podcast episode, and are distraught because you have missed this, there is no worry because you can find us on Patreon. And if you are a patron of ours and anywhere from $5 to $12 a month if you contribute and support this community, you will get access to all of the workshops that we have facilitated both live and virtual. We have videos that are all there that are accessible to our patrons. So you can you can watch it if you've missed it. And you have the ability to get free tickets for yourself and for guests to future events. You can do ask me anything sessions with with Effie where you get to tap into her relationship expertise, coaching skill sets, and a lot of other goodies and exclusive events for patrons. So go on to Patreon you can find it there at we're curious foxes, you can find us on social media and Instagram and Facebook, and we're curious foxes. If you want to learn more about Jessie fresh, you can visit her at her website at Jessie fresh.com Or follow her on Instagram at Jessie fresh the coach. We talked about Patreon. The other way in which you can support this community is by liking reviewing and sharing this podcast it does make a difference. Our goal as Fe said is to hashtag change the noise and to really create spaces that you can places where you can hear where you can watch where you can attend, where you can read so that all of these things that have created shame that hold us back from our deep pleasure that we can replace those stories with stories of inspiration and possibility of what else is actually out there and lean into our curiosity. And so please like and share and review the podcast. If you have any questions that you would like us to explore themes for the podcast, you can email us at listening at we're curious foxes.com or you can leave us a voice message. And we can play your question or your story on the air and address it at 201-870-0063. And so we'll make sure to include all of this information in the show notes. And we hope that you get to join us on June 10. For more exactly, or the blueprints and more pleasure, just more of more.
Effy
Thank you so much Jessie joining us sharing your wisdom and sharing your thoughts.
Jacqueline
To find out more about Jessie fresh, you can visit her website Jessie fresh.com Or follow her on Instagram, Jessie fresh the coach. And if you want to watch the workshop that she did on erotic blueprints, and you can find that on our Patreon, we are curious foxes. We are curious foxes is where you can find us on our website on Instagram and on Facebook, where you can go to have a conversation about this episode. What resonated with you, if you take the quiz, what is your erotic blueprint, come on to the Facebook group and let us now the other way that you can get in touch with us is by emailing us or calling us at listening at we are curious foxes.com or at our phone number 201-870-0063. And the last way in which we can hear from you is actually by you rating and following and sharing our podcasts that's lets us know that you enjoy this content that you enjoy what we're talking about and that you want more of it.
Effy
This episode is produced and edited by Nina Pollack, who's an immense pleasure to work with. Our intro music is composed by dev Saha. We are so grateful for that work. And we're grateful to you for listening. As always, stay curious friends.
Jacqueline
What's happening right now is that Alfie is barking in the background. My wife is above me, walking back and forth and talking loudly on the phone, which is what she does.
Effy
Stopping. Curious Fox podcast is not and will never be the final word on any topic was solely aimed to encourage curiosity and provide a space for exploration through connection and story. We encourage you to listen with an open and curious mind, and we'll look forward to your feedback. Stay curious friends. Stay curious and curious, curious, curious, stay curious.
Still Curios?
