Ep 110: Exploring Tantra with Barbara Carrellas

Art by @safiabahmedschwartz

What are Tantra and tantric sex? What are the myths about tantra that make it feel inaccessible for some? How can we use tantric sex to feel more connected to our bodies and our partners?

In this episode, Effy and Jacqueline were curious about Tantra. They sat down with the founder of Urban Tantra, Barbara Carrellas, to begin their exploration through Barbara’s distilled, accessible adaptation of this ancient tradition.

Our guide to our exploration is Barbara Carrellas:

Barbara is the founder of Urban Tantra®, an approach to conscious sexuality that adapts and blends a wide variety of sacred sexuality practices from Tantra to BDSM. She is the author of Urban Tantra: Sacred Sex for the Twenty-first Century—now in its second edition, Ecstasy is Necessary, and Luxurious Loving. She was named Best Tantric Sex Seminar Leader in New York City by Time Out/NY Magazine and received a Lifetime Achievement Award at the Sexual Freedom Awards in London. Her workshops are always an eclectic mix of sexual and spiritual practices designed to encourage readers and participants of all genders and sexual orientations to expand their capacity for both pleasure and spiritual fulfillment.

To find more about Barbara Carrellas go to her website barbaracarrellas.com  follow her on IG @Urbantantrika, on Facebook BarbaraCarrellasUrbanTantra, or on Twitter: Urbantantrika.

To find more about Effy Blue and Jacqueline Misla, follow them at @wearecuriousfoxes, @coacheffyblue, and @jacquelinemisla on Instagram.

If you have a question that you would like to explore on the show, reach out to us and we may answer your question on one of our upcoming episodes. Leave us a voicemail at 646-450-9079 or email us at listening@wearecuriousfoxes.com

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TRANSCRIPT:

Barbara Carrellas

And you can have a conscious quickie. I mean, if you just want to get to the thing, and do add some breath and some eye gazing, the thing gets much hotter, much faster.

Effy

Welcome to the Curious Fox Podcast, for those challenging the status quo in love, sex, and relationships. My name is Effy Blue.

Jacqueline

And I'm Jacqueline Misla. And today we're dipping our toe into tantric waters by discussing a modern iteration called Urban Tantra. There's debate around whether the Western practice of tantra or Neo Tantra is cultural appropriation, or the natural evolution of ideas and practices. Today, we want to have an introduction into the basics of breathwork, and Tantra, while honoring the complexity of the practice.

Effy

Tantra has been on my list of curiosities for a long time now. And it has historically felt that it comes with such a huge esoteric component that I just hadn't had the bandwidth to dedicate to it. What does that mean for you? It's just complex, like Tantra is a whole tradition, and it has roots in like Hinduism and Buddhism. And like, when people say Tantra, in the Western world, people think of tantric sex. It's how it's how it's normally packaged. But when you look at Tantra, it's like, it's the whole thing, you know, and I took a workshop or two, you know, I did, I took some workshops, because, you know, curious people take drops, you know, we do. So I did, I did the things and I went to some workshops, but I found that they were kind of like a little reductive. It felt like I was going to like yoga burn or like a booty yoga class, like, I was doing yoga. But I was like, in the gym, you know, it was like, Sure, I was doing the Yo, yogic moves. And I was on a mat. But I was nowhere near yoga, like the practice of yoga. You know,

Jacqueline

yoga, by the way, was

Effy

booty yoga. It's like, it's like yoga for your booty.

Jacqueline

Didn't make it make any more sense to me.

Effy

Is like fun yoga class that you do in like, it's like club music. Like, oh, and the you use the poses that are like, good for your book, essentially. Interesting. Yeah. And it's like, it is exactly what they because the tantra classes are exactly had the same field, which is like, it's fun. And I just did something that is entertaining, and maybe even good for me on some level. But I learned nothing. I understood nothing. I went nowhere near enlightenment or insight, or, you know, something new and exciting. I was just like, I had a really fun time. And it was great, you know, but like, he didn't even go anywhere near that the thing itself, you know? Yeah, I think that's what's been my experience with Tantra. So far. I

Jacqueline

had an experience in grad school. So I got my master's degree in social work. And in one of my classes, one of the professors, I think it was a research professor used to talk a lot about spirituality, which had nothing to do with the topic at all like that, that class never made sense to me. If you asked me now how to do proper research within social, I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it, because I didn't learn anything. But what I did, too, was do some breathing exercises. And I remember one of the classes he had us move all of the chairs out of the way, we all light on the ground. And he guided us through this like breathing exercise at which point like the whole room, you could feel like everyone was like breathing together. And that energy was building and it was it was not sexual. But it was just like energetic and I felt something like I felt the shift in myself, I felt the shift around me. And then the class was over. And we went back to life and I don't even know what what that had to do with anything. But that did stay with me. And I think because I didn't know if in that experience, I would be able to feel anything. I think that I'm so skeptical. Like it's like meditation. I'm like closing my eyes and breathing. What's that gonna do? Like as much as people talk about breath? I'm like, Really, though, what is really, really good to do and then I do, like, oh, that that's the thing that it does. So that was my that was my I only experienced kind of touching it. I think what I'm interested as a relates to tantric practice within sex is two things. One is the effort to be fully present and patient in the experience. I very much kind of want to cut to the chase. People are gonna be like You're terrible to have sex with. But I'm it's I'm not, but I do. I do like to play a lot and for good length of time. I just while I love the build up, I also hate the buildup. Does that make sense? I think why I love it and hate it is the same. And so the idea of just sitting and staring at each other and breathing with each other both sounds amazing and torturous. Maybe that's the word. It's like, torturous being patient is like, delightfully deliciously torturous.

Effy

Here's my understanding of it. And by no means I am an expert in this I like, definitely please, if correct me by commenting, by sending me emails, just don't scream at me, just correct me gently. But my understanding is that when you kind of like, have a tantric practice, and it's like a part of your life and your sexuality, that it doesn't feel like patients. Like that's the nuance of it, like you're in it, and it doesn't necessarily mean you're patiently waiting to get to the other side, like you're in it. That's fair. So you're not necessarily being patient. Does that make sense?

Jacqueline

Yes, no, totally makes sense. As you're saying that, right? Patient and present don't work together. Exactly. Patient means you're waiting for something present. Yeah, fully in the moment. Yes. Even in my mind. I still can't even get the language, right. Yes. So being present in the moment, my mind is continuing to plan out things, days, weeks, years in advance at all times. And to like, slow my brain down to be present is always something that I am working towards. And then there's something that's interesting about bringing the the intention to have spirituality, within sex. We've talked on this on this podcast about my religious upbringing and in Christianity, and the very clear separation of church and sex, if you will, and Virginia bedroom. Yeah, so the idea of bringing God the universe, spirituality into a sexual space is something that I'm interested in, because for my whole life, I tried to keep those two things apart,

Effy

I get that I kind of I mean, so I've spent a lot of time exploring kink, and BDSM, and all that kind of stuff for a long time. And I feel like I did all the things that I wanted to try new things and things I haven't tried, I don't feel called to so I'm not really interested in going there. So I'm where I am in my life. Right now, I'm super interested in spiritual sexuality, and all the different forms that it comes in. And I think, in at least in my interpretation, or at least in my, I should say, in my quest for spiritual sexuality, I'm less connecting God, the universe, or whatever, to sex, but more about looking at sexual energy that is created during sex as a divine force of its own, that it's almost not necessarily like there was a God that I bring into my sexuality, but my sexuality practice in a certain way, creates an energy that is that connects me to the spiritual, spiritual world, whatever that mean, like, that's the way I set it up in my head, of what I mean by that, and that connecting into like, connecting to something bigger, through the energy that you're creating. During sites like imagine that it's like a bubble that grows and grows and grows and like now kind of encapsulates the practitioners if you will, and that is the spiritual like the higher power the energy that then connects me to spirituality. I think that's the way I in my head. But I am again, I am in some such a baby explore at this point with this. I will for whom, you know, I will update everyone, but for right now. That's where I am. And I'm like, just barely left the harbor. Going into the waters of exploration.

Jacqueline

It's beautiful, though. That's beautiful. I mean, yeah, that makes sense. To me. sex and sexual energy certainly has felt like a portal to other parts of myself to my self connection, my connection with others, so I can see that. Well,

Effy

it brings life like sex is life, right? I mean, I mean that in a like, That's literally how you make life. So I think I think it is divine like it. Like in some parts of me, like even my reason that even like my whoosh off, but my reason is like, well, that's like, that's how you get life. So it's got to be powerful. If, if you do the thing and you create, I know, there's obviously the biological component, but I just feel like it is so connected to making life that there has to be some divine component.

Jacqueline

Yeah, yeah, I think that's beautiful. So that is I am now that as often is the case, I share the thing that I'm thinking then you share the thing you're thinking and I'm like, oh, I want that thing to happen. Matos is not or so I want the thing I want and now I want the thing you want to.

Effy

Yes, exactly. And yeah, let's let's share it and and exchange notes. And that's, that's what I love. That's what I love. Yeah, yeah,

Jacqueline

there is there is clearly a lot to unpack here, which is why we needed a guide for this exploration.

Barbara Carrellas

I'm Barbara Ellis and I'm the founder of urban Tantra, also the author of urban tonfa sacred sex for the 21st century, and ecstasy is necessary.

Effy

What I love about Barbara's approach urban Tantra is that it adapts and blends a wide variety of sacred sexuality practices from Tantra to even BDSM, actually, and she honors a tradition of Tantra. And it makes it accessible, which I think is is key. So we started from the top and asked her, What is Tantra?

Barbara Carrellas

Let's divide things up, it'll make it easier. There's Tantra, there's Neo Tantra, and then there's urban Tantra. They're related. Tantra is a huge ancient philosophy, started in India, but also pass through into the Buddhist practices, China, around maybe the six hundreds ad. It's a huge ancient philosophy with an infinite number of different practices, different lineages, each lineage had its own Guru, much of the teachings were never written down, but asked verbally from Guru to disciple, essentially, although some practices can be very, very esoteric and others more earthy. Essentially, it's about finding enlightenment or spiritual path within the earthly experience, meaning all the spiritual lessons and discoveries can be made here while you're in a body, you don't need to die and go to a heavenly like place to find spiritual connection. And like, that's classical Tantra. Very briefly, Neo Tantra is the Western interpretation of Tantra. For the times we're in most everything you see about tantra most is unless you're in the presence of a classic contour guru, is Neo Tantra. In the West Tantra has been interpreted as the yoga of sex. Now, I originally had a real problem with that, because I knew it wasn't. But then I realized, not just the West, but in modern times, so few religions were welcoming of sets as a spiritual awakening practice, that we needed one. And if Tantra was the one we were being handed, we should probably use that a lot of the connection in the meaning that people were looking to find and organize religion can be found by entering spirituality through the sexuality door, especially if you know the right practices. So urban Tantra is my version of Neo Tantra. And it's an ever evolving Neo tantric practice. And my particular focus with urban tonfa is on inclusion. The reason I formed urban tundra came up with the idea of urban Tantra wrote a book urban tundra, was that I wanted a tantric practice that was inclusive of people from all races, or backgrounds or body types, or sexual preferences or genders. I wanted country to be available for everyone. And when I first started studying Tantra in the 80s, it felt very white, very middle class and very exclusionary to a lot of people. So urban Tantra welcomes everybody to the tantric table.

Jacqueline

I love that you said that, because I think that that is that has been my experience as a Hispanic woman that I did feel like that is a white person thing to do. And not even something that I wasn't interested in, but felt inaccessible. I didn't understand what that meant. It felt like frankly, when people talk about yoga and meditation, and they simplify it to just sit and think and breathe and like, I mean, I can do that, but am I actually doing the thing? And what does that look like and what and not seeing enough representation of myself as models and in doing those things, and so I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit more about that. What are some of the myths about tantra that make it feel inaccessible for some

Barbara Carrellas

of us, so on like big as be for though many nuances of practices. It doesn't have to be so complicated. So I'll give some myths about the complications. First of all, okay, as I said, tantra is perceived frequently as couples therapy for privileged white middle aged middle class, apolitical. Woowoo New Age workshop junkies. Do I have all the categories?

Effy

So many of those categories to get in?

Barbara Carrellas

Wait one more, one more and they all live in Marin County, California. Yeah. Okay.

Jacqueline

Like west coast. Yeah, I gotta say, because I there's some West Coast vibes. Yeah.

Barbara Carrellas

So the reason I started exploring Tantra and tantric sex in particular, was because I was living through the AIDS crisis in the 80s. I was in the Broadway theater, people I knew were dying, and obviously desperately sick, I lost over 200 friends and chosen family members to AIDS. And I was simply looking for a way for my gay brothers to have a passionate, healing, spiritual, intimate connection with somebody else without passing on a deadly disease. So I looked to tonfa because as I was doing my reading and studying, it seemed like Tantra and Tao is sexualities were so much more about the energy of sex and less about just the genitals. And I was very attracted to that I was also attracted to the, the mystical feeling I got when I heard people describe their concrete experiences, and the mystical experiences, I started having pretty much day one when I started experimenting, learning Tantra. So in fact, urban Tantra can be practiced by anyone, anywhere, anybody who can breathe, anybody who has some feeling, and that can be internal, because I've taught this to people with spinal cord injuries can practice Tantra, it is not exclusive to anyone from unity. It's not a private club. It's not a religion. It's not a cult. It's a practice, much like yoga is a practice. And I liked what you said Jacqueline, about the yoga, it's like, Am I doing the thing, if all I'm doing is sitting here, trying to quiet my mind? Yeah, you're doing the thing. And I wanted to like write a book and have gatherings where people could understand that the simpler things got, the more they were doing the thing

that it didn't have to be complicated. humans tend to complicate things, and systems tend to complicate the more large religious organizations, large governmental organizations, the larger and more bureaucratic it becomes, the more complicated it becomes and people feel excluded. Tantra is not all about the sex, as I said, it's perceived that way. But when you start exploring it, you realize that Whoa, this is way bigger than sex. However, sex can be the door that opens and lets you into a life of more mindfulness, more connection, more personal power, you can discover the deeper aspects of tantra simply by doing it, you don't need to read 500 page books, although that can be fun for some people, you start to realize, and this is an important sex in America, in the West Europe, is often very much about what we do in order to have a longer orgasm, Do this, do that do something else. And we're going to have more functional department follow these 10 steps, and they're all action oriented steps. Tantra teaches you taught me, day one, pretty much that 95% of what I knew about sex was completely wrong, that it wasn't about what I thought it was about. That's the magic of sex, the transcendence, the aha moments the thing people are searching for insects are very similar to the things they are searching for, in spirituality, a feeling of expansiveness, a feeling of connection, a feeling of I am more than I thought I was. I am part of something bigger than I thought I was. All those altered state trans personal qualities. And tantric sex is about building energy, not about rubbing genitals together in 57 different ways. You know, it's about 57 different ways to build energy and when the energy is moving. All of the things you're looking for in sex can have At so much. So one of the techniques I first learned was the breath and energy orgasm technique, which was some techniques, tips, tricks that I'll tell you about later, that if you just lay down and breathe and use a bit of imagination, not fantasy, just imagination, and I'll explain how you can get yourself into a full body orgasmic state. I even have an mp3 Again, which I'll tell you about later, where I guide you through this state, so that you can try it for yourself. And it's really quite simple. It's more meditation than it is having sex. And it takes you to a place where you go, Oh, this is a taste of what I've been looking for. This is the something more I've been looking for. And it's in the energetic more than it is the traditionally physical. Another myth, tantra has to be done by a man and a woman, whatever that means, anyway. But Tantra was very that tantric practices I saw when I first started out was super heterosexual. And very gendered, I quickly learned from experimentation, that all of that was made up Shakti and Shiva, were not boyfriend and girlfriend. They were consciousness, and they were earth and sky. They were consciousness and, and you. And the whole heterosexual was just that. So my urban Tantra is very gender expansive, shall we say? Anybody who identifies as any gender can do it, because anybody of any gender can do Tantra. And actually, that's reflected in the Hindu deities, but it didn't get passed down into western contracts. Because we think of gender as a binary. Hindu deities do not they frequently switch genders. And the other thing I think people think, is that Tantra is very, very targeted, and targeted sex is very, very rude. Very soft, very floaty, very dreamy, very, not kinky.

And what I have me and my friends and my colleagues and other urban toxic practitioners have learned is that activities during conflict can be done in with a feather or with a whip. It really doesn't matter what you like sexually. It just matters what consciousness you bring to whatever it is you're doing. So it's very welcoming, have lots of different sexual flavors. And certainly kinky people never thought that they were doing or could do Tantra or combine the two. And people who like the softer styles of sex, never thought that something a little more, a little harder, a little more intense, could be pleasurable, and find out it is when it's done in, shall we say a tantric consciousness or tantric practice. And the last thing I think, is that it takes too long. You need a partner and it takes too long. You have to have sex all day to get to a toxic state of mind. No, you don't. I'll give you the tips later. You need your soulmate to practice Todra No you don't. The person you're practicing with maybe come your soulmate by practicing contract. So those are there are a lot of myths out there.

Effy

Yeah, for sure. I've been interested in tantra for for a long time. I do always put it on the table. When I'm talking about sexual expression. We talk a lot about sexual expression. On the show, we talk about how your sexual expression is a part of your self expression. And I normally when I mentioned kink, I also put in there Tantra, and the spiritual approach to sexuality as well. And it's definitely something that I'm drawn to and hearing you talk about it, definitely I'm just like sold, where do I sign? Where do I sign? What do I have to do? Sign me up? So I'm sold. And I'm sure our listeners as well, like we know our gang. And I know that people who are listening to you are saying is similar way like where do I sign? The thing that I'm curious about is idealistically I'm there, spiritually. I'm there, my curiosity is engaged. I'm wondering what it looks like, like, where do I start? What does it look like? What does it look like to practice Tantra? What does it look like to engage, you know, to explore tantric sex, for example, the parallels that you drew with yoga is what I use as well. Like I say, urban Tantra, it's like the way that we treat yoga in the West in the West is essentially how urban Tantra brings Tantra into the Western world and make it digestible so we can like engage in it. And I think when we tell people about yoga, we say here's a mat, their poses, you start with your sun salutations, you know, that's the beginning. When we started meditation, you sit down you, you know, catch your breath, you follow your breath, and that's How'd you start? So how are we drawing that picture for people? Like I have decided I'm going to start a tantric practice. What does it look like?

Barbara Carrellas

Awesome question. By the way, hatha yoga and and tantric practices are related historically. So you will often see parallels or go, oh, that's sort of like what I did in yoga the other day, that that's true. They are connected. Okay, the first thing is release any goals you have any expectations of what might happen on this path?

Or what should happen on this path, despite everything I just said, and now you're all geared up for what should happen. The most ecstatic moments in sex have been in the one you're currently enjoy. Not the one you had yesterday, not the one that you're hoping to have tomorrow. But right now. And when I say goals, it's like, okay, we're going to have a great time, we're going to get really hot and heavy and high, we're both going to have orgasms. And so, okay, if that's the goal, and it's just not flowing that way. Today, did you just like no, we gotta go, we gotta both have orgasms gotta look certain way there's got to be penis and vagina sex. And if something goes wrong there, we have failed. No, there's no failure in Tantra. When you start off on a tantric moment together, any number one little side roads may reveal themselves, it may be you know, the energy generated when somebody bites your rear low bore, runs their hand up your spine, and suddenly it's like, whoa, and you're taking off in some other direction, that doesn't involve the penis in vagina orgasm at all. And it's releasing expectations, intentions are great. Like, our intention is to spend the next couple of hours breathing together holding each other, we would both like to think to achieve a state of real connection, or softness or holding or healing or any intention you might have. There's a whole lot of different ways to get to that intention, which is the start off and follow some of these next tips, you'll probably find, but those don't work very well. Just like meditation, just like yoga. The next one is stay in the present, stay in the present, stay in the present. A lot of the things we do and tantra the practices are to give our busy mind something to do. So that we're not focused on what should I be doing? What do you suppose they want? I wonder what I should do next? Oh, my God, did I leave the stove on? Oh, I didn't answer that email. All those thoughts. So part of it is like meditation. How do I keep coming back to what's happening right here right now. One of those ways is to slow down. My first time to teach her had a little same three strokes for 32 Only three strokes where you might have in the past done 30 Whatever strokes, we're talking about. Everything done slowly takes your mind into another level, another place of consciousness and helps you come into the moment, much like you have to slow down to meditate. You can be multitasking and meditating at the same time. Often our thoughts are multitasking. So slowing down, helps you really focus on your partner's breath, your partner's heartbeat, your partner's eyes, your partner's skin, or your own if you're having a tantric moment with yourself. eye gazing I mentioned eyes. eye gazing is super, super, super powerful, so much so that people avoid looking in each other's eyes. You know, like if you're walking down the streets and in a busy city or on a busy sidewalk, and you catch somebody's eyes and you didn't mean to, and you'll hold them a moment too long and it's uncomfortable and we look away and get out of it. In Tantra. In a tantric encounter, we might start with slow breathing facing each other and eye gazing and eye gazing. It's like dropping down levels. It's like I'm meeting you at this level. Ah and now I need to you a step lower deeper. And now I'm meeting you a step deeper. People's faces sometimes even change when your eye gaze and so if that happens for you don't think you're weird or that anything? untoward is happening again reality changes during I gazing and breathing which brings me to my other point Why and it's perhaps the most useful one of all of these, which is breathe. Breathe more fully, more deeply and longer. I like to say breathe before sex breathe during says read after sex, breathe, like your pleasure depends upon it, but it does, because it does. The breath, everything travels on the breath. And the breath is how we move energy. Let me give you a really short example of how the breath can change your consciousness. If you want to do this, just follow along with me if you don't just listen and it'll only take a minute. Just loosen your jaw.

Open your throat, close your eyes. Very relaxed jaw, very relaxed throat, take a gentle breath into your mouth

let it out with a sigh, gentle little sigh

so it would tend to be a fast breather, you might be a much slower breather, that's totally fine. But keep it gentle and keep that little side there. That little side tells you that you're not forcing the air out. You're not producing tension. If you were it would sound like ah, it doesn't it sounds like this. Good. Now just gently take a few Fuller, faster breaths, just real gentle, whatever that means to you.

Now just relax. Just breathe normal. And just notice if you feel any different. That was a very, very short example. But you might feel once you knocked a few thoughts out of your head might feel a little slowly or lightheaded as he did you notice anything?

Effy

I felt grounded, and expansive at the same time. I felt like I dropped into my body and then I expanded out of that place.

Barbara Carrellas

You're good at this. Hang No. Jacqueline, how about you? Yeah,

Jacqueline

I feel a little bit of that floaty, like a little bit of the sort of a sensation almost like the best way I could describe it like bubbles kind of like, yeah, kind of like bubbles like coming up and out. That's how I felt

Effy

like champagne.

Barbara Carrellas

Oh, I'm down with that. And we only did that for a moment. And if you didn't feel anything, if you're listening and you didn't feel anything, don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. Many people don't after a minute of an exercise like that. But if you try it for longer, I think you'll be surprised at how far your breath will take you and how much energy it moves. You crash course in conscious breathing. Breathing through the mouth like that is an energizing breath. If we were to breathe forcefully through the mouth like that, we might get feeling very anxious, like a panic attack. However, if you breathe through your mouth with a relaxed jaw and throat, and keep that breath relaxed with that little sigh It's energizing it, it's trippy, it alters your consciousness, which is exactly the kind of space you want to be in for a transcendental sexual experience. And nose breathing is inherently common. So if you're feeling really tense and want to calm down, slow nose breathing is your friend. Okay? All of those tips. Release your goals and your expectations. Stay in the present. Slow down three, practice I gazing, those few tips if you bring them into your relationship or even into your self pleasuring practice, by the way you can I gaze with yourself in a mirror. And I want to tell you, that's the graduate level stuff. Because being your own best lover that intimately with eye gazing is a challenge. But you can do it. Wow.

Effy

Yeah, I used to say eye gazing is one of the King keys things you can do.

Barbara Carrellas

Really good. I will borrow that phrase. And, please,

Effy

because much harder it's so much harder than people think. And uh, you bring your entire self and so much is going on. It's like oh, power dynamics and sensuality. And, you know, so much is in that in that I gaze and I show it's something that I have to work up to. I really struggled with that. And it's I feel like no amount of pain, no amount of degradation, no amount of traditional kinky stuff. I feel like I gazing towards all of that

Barbara Carrellas

well said, and you just landed on a topic, I'm really passionate about that intersection of tints and tantra people who play it very conscious levels of BDSM. In other words are really input for the transcendental experience, immediately get Tonto because so much of the focus and left and the consent and the awareness and slowing down and the breathing in kink, you need to read your partner's body to see how whatever you're doing, whether it's a power dynamic, or sensation is landing, so you learn to be very, very mindful and breathe with somebody or even guide somebody's breath. And the to match up very, very sweetly. So if you're a little bit chunky, or a lot, and you got our tonsils way over on the other side of the spectrum, that's like the anti cape. No, no, no, no, no, no. It is an ideal marriage. shakin, tonto, if you are inclined that way. And Urban Tantra come over to our side, we welcome that connection.

Jacqueline

There's so much I think, from what you're sharing that is resonating, and certainly reflecting back on some of my experiences and sex and thinking that those those elements were there and naturally happening. And I didn't even realize right, so in my some of my best sexual experiences, there is eye contact, there is the breathing, there is like the gentle touch and the fort and the forceful touch and, and so that feels great. Because I'm like, Oh, I'm doing it. And it

Effy

was a buddy knows, the buddy knows. Yeah,

Jacqueline

yeah. But doing it with intention. I think one of the things that I personally struggle with is the distinction between sensuality and sexuality, that often when I start to get into that space, I am the one who's like, alright, let's let's do the thing. Like, let's let's go to the parts, let's go to the light leg, we know why we're here. Let's get to it. And yet my best experiences are when it's really slow. And actually, we don't just get to the thing. And so I love this as a tool for pacing, and patience and energy building and connection to self and to partner. Yeah.

Barbara Carrellas

And you can have a conscious quickie. I mean, if you just want to get to the thing, and do add some breath and some eye gazing, the thing gets much hotter, much faster.

Jacqueline

Yeah, have you in your work experienced kind of before and afters, if you will. So if folks come to you and said, We want to be engaged in this process, because things are not, we're not feeling connected, things are feeling bland. And then they go through the experience, and what are some of the things that they say has happened as a result?

Barbara Carrellas

Well, my favorite example, I was teaching a workshop at a college. And it was a breath and energy orgasm workshop, which in colleges I present is how to have a gender free orgasm, because there is no gender to breath. And it was a Friday night. So it tended to have a date crowd element to it. And one young woman came with a guy. And the breath and energy orgasm experience is a solo experience, or at least the way I present, it certainly is what I'm teaching, because really the focus on you, not anyone else. And so we're breathing and breathing. And we're breathing up our bodies, imagining that we're filling our bodies with energy. And at the end, we hold our breath and we hold all the energy and really tightly as if to compress it. And then we let go. And a lot of people go into the we'll call it trance, they go into a new space. It might be an emotional space, it might be it often is a transpersonal sort of spiritual space, but it's not here. So we do this. And at the end, people are waiting to tell me their experience and a little line after the workshops are over. And this young woman's in the line, and I went, Oh, where's your friend? And she said, I asked him to leave because everything I ever thought I wanted in dating in a relationship has changed Okay, man, it's it's, I've had people also in college, a high pressure school, really super academic school in May where They're all studying for their exams and being super, super pressured, I've had more than a couple of people decide to like dump their majors after the energy orgasm and go off on something that means more to them. I've had in terms of couples coming together as opposed to people dumping things, although you often do have to let go of something to get to welcome something new. And actually, it worked with couples, it's the same people often have to let go of old beliefs about their partner, or about how sex works, or what they enjoy. We often buy into, I should enjoy this, I'm enjoying this, I'm not really but I have to say, because I don't know what else I would enjoy that kind of thing. You often have to let go of stuff of old beliefs about who you are and what you're doing in order for the new magical to come in. And that's what I try to encourage couples to do is to let go of everything they thought they knew about sex for just a moment. And let's rebuild from the ground up based on what we really want to prioritize and who we are at the moment. I remember coaching someone and in and I suggested a an erotic massage evening. And one partner wanted some domination. The other partner said, Okay, I can try that. And they went into what they thought a dominating person would be like, sort of like that, you know, classic pro Don, in the movies, the porn movie. And it was so not them. So not them. So they were so miserable. And they just said I can't do this. And the partner was super understanding and said, we'll make up your own version of what somebody in a holding the power roll would do. And it turned out it was a supermom, when they breathed nine gays to gave the partner time to find their supermodel. And which was a very powerful, strong holding personality. Yeah, but it wasn't the proton in the leather thigh high boots.

Effy

Fascinating. So

Barbara Carrellas

slowing down. And creating connection and doing all those silly little simple tips I just gave you can bring you to all for sure. Because you slow down. And you released your expectation about how things were supposed to be. And often when we I gaze, Effie, we're speaking the power of it. Often our partner becomes our mirror, and we feel and realize things about ourselves and gazing into our partner's eyes that we just didn't see another way. Mm hmm.

Effy

For sure. Absolutely. So fascinating. So, so fascinating. I am yet to come to one of your workshops. And it it has been on my list for a long time. And I'm interested because I want to learn at the same time, I am interested in those transformations that happen in those workshops in those experiences, for sure. And as I was listening to you talking about that, I also wondered if Tantra would be a good tool would be a good space for people to also process sexual trauma, from the range of like big T trauma all the way to kind of the cultural trauma that we inadvertently have because sex is stigmatized and shamed. And, you know, it's it's not spoken to with a Tantra would be a good practice, to towards healing that.

Barbara Carrellas

I think so. In my experience, it has been for both me and a lot of the people that I've seen the hundreds, maybe 1000s of people I've seen, but they don't want to say Oh, you don't need to go to a proper trauma therapist who just need to practice time for No, no, no, no, no. How ever, when you work with the breath, and when you work with profound heart connections and slow down and your edges soften, and you feel your emotions more, it can often lead to that kind of healing. Pretty much remember I started doing the aid this during the AIDS crisis. So one of my biggest intentions with doing this work was feeling and I mean that very broadly. And I have seen people make profound transformations, healing transformations as they play with this stuff, especially the breath, but the breath and touch the breath and connection with another human being. But like I said, I think it's a great complementary tool trauma therapy, but it isn't therapy. Sure, but but a complement to it. Absolutely. Much like homeopathic is not chemo. therapy, your show and your cancer is very serious, you might want to, you might want to have surgery and use homeopathy as a complementary medicine.

Jacqueline

So, we have been talking with you about how to get to know ourselves better, and our partners better and I want to spend the last few minutes getting to know you a little better. And so if we have four different questions that we would love to ask you, so we can learn a little bit of or about you and your experience in this work. So the first is what is one piece of advice that you would give to your younger self about love, sex, or

Barbara Carrellas

relationships, it will all change, what you want will change. What you find attractive will change in there will be so many surprises, some shocking, most wonderful. Just just know, it's all gonna change, relax.

Effy

I love that. That's such a good advice that we haven't heard yet on the show. So I love that. I love that. Okay, what is one romantic or sexual adventure on your bucket list?

Barbara Carrellas

One I have not heard of yet something new. That surprised me. surprise me, because the universe has consistently so why should she let me down? Now?

Jacqueline

This may feel self evident, but how do you challenge the status quo

Barbara Carrellas

as often as I can. It's one of my top 10 turn ons challenging the status quo. And I don't mean doing it. I had a good discussion with somebody about this recently. And it's like, you can do that out of ego. And you can do that out of service. And just watch your balance. There's nothing wrong with you know, getting off on it. Like, look what I did it work. There's nothing wrong with that. I think that's what keeps us going. Is that thrill? It's something good. But yes, there's a balance between ego and service. And I try to check myself to make sure I'm much more heavily leaning on on the role of service.

Effy

Yes, that is such a great distinction. Yeah,

Barbara Carrellas

it's not just to make me look for that feels very empty very quickly. But seeing how it ripples out over people's lives and across the world, in the case of bourbon contract is super rewarding. But you know what, it's also, it's also like, hey, if I kick off tomorrow, if I get hit by a bus, they've got it. How wonderful. That's I think what I'm most proud of is that, yeah, that it doesn't take me to drive this ship. Awesome.

Effy

Awesome. I'm loving your answers. Last but not least, we are a curious bunch. And we are curious about what you're curious about lately.

Barbara Carrellas

You know, what I'm curious about? I'm curious about what conscious sex time for conscious kink. The possibilities of what that would look like in expanded virtual reality games and stuff? What? How can we play with sensation? In another dimension? What are the people working in artificial intelligence and augmented reality? And what sort of things are possible out there? I'm, I think there's things possible out there both spiritually instinctually. I'm one of those people who puts on a virtual reality headset, like, do me. So I'd like to know what the other possibilities of that Oh, during the pandemic, I was doing virtual circles in virtual workshops. And we start I started doing Virtual hugs with people. And how you did that was you unmuted yourself. So I went to hear each other breathing. And we would lean into art laptops or whatever device with third eye which is forehead to camera, and we would wrap our hands or arms around the device, and we would breathe into the circle. And the damned if we couldn't feel the energy. We could feel the hug. It was like hugging a circle around the world. Wow. So I know it's possible. Yeah. And I'd love to see what we can do with that in augmented reality spaces. Think what that might mean to people in nursing homes or prisons.

Effy

You are speaking my nerdy language Barbara I spent as as meta becoming a thing I'm just I, you know, same seem to seem there's definitely a part of my brain. That is wondering what Can be done in those spaces and how to make them connected to the reality that the real time and still have those experiences, but not be disconnected from our bodies and our senses. And it be an augmented experience a layer on top rather than something that we disassociate from our body and go to, like, how do you bridge that to make it? Yeah, that is fascinating. Fascinating. Yes. I'm there with you.

Barbara Carrellas

You gotta find somebody to come on the podcast. You can speak about that.

Effy

Yes. Yeah. The answers. Yeah, putting

Jacqueline

on the list. I

Effy

love that. Yeah.

Jacqueline

Well, thank you so much. I have learned a lot. I'm going to practice the things I'm going to say I'm going to practice being present and slowing down and having eye contact and the breath. I'm going to re listen to your exercise and find the mp3 and listen to that as well. So that this way, I can practice on my own. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Barbara.

Effy

Thank you, Barbara. It was a great conversation.

Barbara Carrellas

Thank you so much.

Jacqueline

To learn more about Barbara Carrellas. Attend one of her online workshops, or listened to her guided meditation for breath orgasms and visit her website, Barbara corliss.com. You can also check out her books, Urban Tantra, sacred sex for the 21st century, ecstasy is necessary Practical Guide, and luxurious, loving tantric inspirations for passion and pleasure. And if you have questions about tantra, or have incorporated this practice into your life, then let us know, head over to our Facebook group and find other podcast listeners and curious foxes. We want to engage in all of these types of conversations with each other, and come to Instagram, last conversation, they're more pictures still informative, still fun, you get an opportunity to see what our upcoming episodes are, and to be able to weigh in on your curiosities. And then of course, if you want even more than that, Patreon is the place where you have to go. You get to experience our podcasts before everyone else, you get special extras, and you get to support the work that we're doing. And we're incredibly grateful. If you have any idea that you'd like us to explore it on this show, then reach out to us by emailing us at listening at we are curious foxes, or giving us a call at 201-870-0063.

Effy

This episode is produced and edited by Nina Pollack, whose amazing work allows us to catch our breath when we get lost in our heads. Our intro music is composed by dev saw, we are so grateful for that work. And we are grateful to you for listening as always Stay curious friends. But it also say hedonism and you say hedonism, hedonism some I'm not the best person to check. Just roll with it

Jacqueline

get into a tangible mindset.

Effy

100 mindset awaken the sneak like Tantra and Kundalini like merged somewhere in the in the universe and like, please, okay. Now let's get serious, curious Fox podcast is not and will never be the final word on any topic was solely aimed to encourage curiosity and provide a space for exploration through connection and story. We encourage you to listen with an open and curious mind, and we'll look forward to your feedback. Stay curious friends.

Jacqueline

Stay curious, curious, curious, thank you.

Effy

Take care and stay curious. Stay curious.

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