Ep 125: Fox Tales: I Came Out To My Partner As Trans with Bear & Fifi

Art by @claireboecousins

We are back with another Fox Tales episode, with stories of lives that challenge the status quo.

This week we will hear the story of Bear and Fifi (@bear.n.fifi). A few years into their relationship, after slowly taking down their walls to lean into love and trust, Bear revealed to Fifi that he is transgender and that he wanted to go through the process of transitioning. 

In this episode, they candidly share the fear, mourning, connection, and surprise that they experience as individuals and as partners during Bear’s journey of discovery and embodiment. 

Kabir Brown (Bear) is a Black queer transgender man, born and raised in Brooklyn, New York. A clinical case manager for underserved communities, and a private intimacy coach + sex positive space curator, he uses his professional background and intersectional experience of identities to create affirming spaces for his clients. 

Sofia Mojica (Fifi) is a pansexual Puerto-Rican cis woman from The Bronx, NY. Using trauma-informed neo-tantric techniques, spiritual technologies, and somatic exercises, Fifi guides her clients to develop compassion toward themselves and remove barriers they may have around sex, intimacy, connecting to their physical bodies, and experiencing joy. 

To find out more about Bear and Fifi, visit their website bearandfifi.com and follow them on Instagram at @bear.n.fifi.

To find more about Effy Blue and Jacqueline Misla, follow them at @wearecuriousfoxes, @coacheffyblue, and @jacquelinemisla on Instagram.

If you have a question that you would like to explore on the show, reach out to us and we may answer your question on one of our upcoming episodes. Leave us a voicemail at 646-450-9079 or email us at listening@wearecuriousfoxes.com

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TRANSCRIPT:

Effy

Welcome to the Curious Fox podcast for those challenging the status quo in love, sex, and relationships. My name is Effy Blue.

Jacqueline

And I'm Jacqueline Misla. And today, we're bringing you another episode of Fox Tales intimate self narrated stories of lives that challenge the status quo. Before we get into today's story, a quick heads up that there are two important messages at the end, so be sure to stay on. Now. For this installment of foxtails, we invite you to listen to a story about love, self discovery, transition, and what happens after years of being relationship when one partner reveals that they are transgender.

Effy

According to the Williams Institute, a research center at University of California which produces reports on the demographics, behaviors, and policy concerns of the LGBTQ community in the United States, over 1.6 million people above the age of 13 identifies as transgender. The number of adults who identify as transgender has remained steady over time, as the estimate number of trans youth has nearly doubled in the recent years. And as the number of Americans identifying as trans rises, so there's discrimination and violence faced by the community, with trans folks being over four times more likely to be victims of violence than sis people. In a 2015 national survey. 98% of respondents shared that they thought about suicide as a result of rejection from home, discrimination and violence in society, and limited access to gender affirming medical care, with 51% of respondents having attempted to end their lives.

Jacqueline

While these numbers provide the context for fear and internalized transphobia that keeps many trans people from being honest about who they are. There are many stories of trans joy, acceptance, affirmation and love.

Effy

And telling that tale of both fear and love today are

Bear

My name is Kabir or Bear Brown. My pronouns are he/him and I am an intimacy coach. I specialize in masculine embodiment, and non monogamy slash open relationships.

Effy

And his fiancee,

Fifi

My name is Sophia Fifi Mojica aka known as Fifi, I am a sex positive advocate, I am a champion of sex positivity all around that I think it's very important that you do that through various means I am community builder and I am also an intimacy coach alongside Bear, Mr. Bear here.

Bear & Fifi's connection started with a sneak peek.

Bear

I saw Fifi before she saw me like years earlier at a party with my ex who was my partner at the time, and they had mutual friends and they were at this party and I see Fifi like and this was when she was like 20 and was like a rave baby shed like space fall into their hair and like the long like fuzzy socks and was like doing raved girl things dancing in the middle of the like life of a party. Everyone's looking at her all these things. And I saw her and I was in an open relationship with my my partner at the time. And I remember like making a mental note of seeing that person, Ray of baby very like I want to cross paths with her again and then years later, we ended up in the same circle. And I don't know you you stayed away from me for a little bit because I had a lot of cell phone.

Fifi

Yeah, you were bad news for a little bit.

Bear

Yeah, ike the ex like I was just like kind of a messy investment.

Fifi

He's got a lot of growing. Now. I'll come back to me a little back. He's hot.

Bear

Yeah. So eventually, like, we started talking a little bit more throughout, like mutual friends, but we didn't have any, like real conversations. And there was a play party that I had been to which was called submit and Brooklyn, there was no sense man allowed. It was just like a very transcendent space. It was really awesome. And I was like, ready to date again, and and experiment and get out in the world after like having a law. I'm just kind of taking time to myself. But I wasn't gonna go to this party because both of my axes weren't going. And I was like, because of Brooklyn queer scene is like two people and their entire lineage. So I was like, Nah, I gotta go, I can't go. I don't want to go to this. And I had a poetry show before that party. And I invited all my friends Fifi being one of them. And it was like, I don't want to go, it was fine. I don't think it's a good idea. As bad as I want to go because you're going. But after the performance, she like came up to me. And it's like, took one of my cigarettes. And, like you said, Come and I didn't really much. I really took it out of your hand. Yeah.

Fifi

I just grabbed it. I sometimes he tells me things that I've done in the past. I'm like, Who is she? Wow, oh, my God. I had no idea that he wasn't anticipating to go to this party, I was plotting my demise. On for this event, and then to hear that he wasn't going to be there. I was only going to this play party to fuck him. That was my only reason for going. And then when I heard after his poetry show that he had known that he couldn't attend, because his axes were boring. And I was so confused. I was I was like, What do you mean this? So excuse? Me? Anyway, right, right.

Bear

I was like, You know what, that's a great idea. You make a valid point, I should come. So we get into our car. And she's in the front seat with our other friend. And she just pulls out a Hitachi and starts...

Fifi

I was trying to send the message. Yeah.

Bear

And I was like, okay, she was like, Do you mind if I fluff and I was like, fluff?

Fifi

But see, something that when he tells me I'm like, I can't believe I did such a thing. Right? In my car.

Bear

Yes. In your car in front of my poetry show. So then that ends, and we get to the party. And yeah, playing in front of all of our friends. And our chemistry was pretty immediate. Yeah. And then we just were weird for the first year even have a relationship where we didn't really want to like each other as much as we did was kind of like we both got out of really recent, intense like primary partnership breakups. Yeah, we were just kind of like, doing the like, high school thing of like, who's gonna tax burdens then was going to show that they care more and I was gonna like model vulnerability first in this moment. And it was like an agitating little dance. To be honest, it was really annoying. Like, I felt like we went slower than most couples overall, like at the pace of emotional investment. We were taking like bite sized approaches to it so that we didn't get so law I think we both had experience of getting so emerged and love that we were kind of like, Oh, I really knew that. So quickly. You're really cool and like so awesome. And we're so compatible, but I guards were definitely up for a little bit.

Jacqueline

Fifi was also resistant to get swept away in a relationship. So much so that she showed up to their first one on one date with her slip protocols handbook PDF filled with tips for how not to fall in love. One of those handy tips was no sleepovers, which they stuck to for a while at least.

Bear

So be up before first sleepover. Sophia, like let me know that she is not a morning person. She does not want to interact with people in the morning. And in my head I was like, no then so like completely leave you alone in the morning. So she sleeps over and I took that quite literally and literally woke up rolled out of bed and then acknowledged or because I I just thought she wasn't a morning person. And then like, I'm making coffee for us. So like, I want to, like talk to her or acknowledge her, but I'll make her coffee. So she knows that I'm really happy this happened. And then she comes out of the room. And she's like, so when you don't acknowledge me, after we've, like, fogged and slept in your bed, it makes me feel like a prostitute. And I was like, thinking I did the right thing the entire time. But...

Fifi

I took it very personally I didn't you know, I came in there guns blazing. Like I just opened the door and I was like, oh, hell, no, you're not gonna man did not just wake up and leaved me in this place that I don't know. Because also at that time, I think the whole thing was just very disruptive to my nervous system, the like, process of liking someone as much as I like you. This year, we'll we'll make five years. And this is a big deal.

Bear

We did not know that we were going to end up where we're at right now in front of you. Living together in Brooklyn, I guess.

Fifi

Resistance if I was to sleep over moving in together? What the No way that wasn't gonna happen.

Bear

Literally, we're together ever. But yeah, just from that, like example of one of the slough protocols like no sleepovers. But we were doing this dance of like not wanting to fall in love and guarding ourselves, but then also having sleepovers. And then miscommunicate like it was just, we were making big so much harder on ourselves, I think because of this fear, falling harder for each other. But eventually it we I think we just grow up.

Effy

Like many Bear & Fifi's relationship was also impacted by COVID. For them COVID was an unexpected boost for them maturing relationship.

Bear

We were those couple that was really committed to each other, like we went to Burning Man together before COVID. Like all these things, but I think COVID just created a, we like didn't have escape plans anymore at that, like, I felt like, there was always this element with each other where we had a little bit of a foot out the door, like just in case because we're both very disorganized, attached, shameful. So there's this element of like, well, because we're carrying these wounds from our past relationships, like getting her. And when COVID had so much about our authenticity with each other, our vulnerability with each other shifted in a big way. Yeah, like it became clear to our family that we were in a relationship now is a big deal.

Effy

As they settled into their relationship closer than ever, unbeknownst to Fifi, who has always identified as a sis pansexual kinky woman, there's identity was still evolving. This led to a brief compassion.

Bear

And then I told you that I was trying. So I had come out for the first time when I was 20. And had like, at the time, I didn't have a partner who was supportive, she was trusting him. And then I went back in the closet and really did like Jedi mind tricks on myself to convince myself that I was like, just a proud butch woman. Which, which really did work like a stud because like, within like black and brown culture, masculinity in a five sigma were assigned female at birth art is performed in this kind of like, hyper masculine way. So I fit right in culturally, like I wasn't, so it's easy to mold into that, and then one of the pandemic. And there was always like, this underlying tone of like, wishing of like, having thoughts, like, I know that I would have been happier if I was assigned male at birth. I know like, in whispers and everything I was doing, but for some reason, it was really easy to convince myself out of that. And then when COVID hit when you're just like with yourself, like I spent so much time in solitude. So what like I had to ask myself Who am I when no one is when I'm not thinking about the rest of the world? Like how do I feel? And it was clear as day I was like, You're a man Yeah. So we like solidify like this component of our relationship of me like being integrated into my family. Have this kind of like bond And between two women. And then very shortly after, there's this, like reveal that I think what was challenging for you wasn't actually, we're both pansexual. And we always have. And I think it was how long you felt like I knew and didn't share with you. That was challenging.

Fifi

Honestly, I think it was just one specific theory you had, which was something that we shared very early on about trans masculinity. And like, the idea that there's something very rooted in misogyny. And it was really solely from that, because I think the story, I had known that he had come out to his partner, at one point, you definitely minimize it though. I think, like, yeah, in the convincing yourself process. Like, you almost you've looked back and would kind of make fun of yourself for that,

Bear

like, Yeah, I think really transphobia was so like, it's such a wild, like when we talk about, like, internalized phobias, how it just reads as outward transphobia and I adopted this transphobic mentality, because of like, trying so hard to convince myself out of it. Yeah, like the only way I could amputate this thought from myself or this truth from me was to like be so adverse to it. Having a partner at the time, not you, but yeah, ex, who kind of like fed me this like turfy lesbian idea of trans masculinity and like ingesting man. Yeah. And then having these really internalized thoughts about like, conflict of, I know the truth about myself, but I need to convince myself out of it. Because choosing to be, quote, unquote, choosing to be a man is like this easy way out, or this cop out of my queerness. Or, I'm siding with, like my oppressor, like, there's so many elements to it, that was so hard to like, breakaway from what I was conditioned about men and women. So and I go into this relationship with her carrying this, like proud, like, honestly, turvy like idea of womanhood, like, I'm gonna be as much as I want and not change anything about myself, because, like, radical gender is not having to assign like, masculinity to mammon, and all these things. And, and then I'm like, actually, I'm a binary trans. I have been for since I was three years old. And I was really hard to reconcile with, like, the things that we kind of do, or the harm that we do to ourselves, to just not do the kind of hard and brave thing, which was to like, pursue, you know, by authenticity.

Jacqueline

Given Bear's first attempt to coming out in his 20s was so painful as he was preparing to go through it again. He was well,

Bear

Oh, anxious. Yeah. I mean, I had like, my eyes frozen, my eyes was super. And I was with that person for like, four years, it informed so much more than just about like, my, I just had a bad pick. Like in terms of feeling like picking people who made me fail, like, help or save. I wasn't good at that at the beginning. So bringing this to her felt I was embarrassed. I think I was embarrassed because I had gone so far to I wasn't even like a little bit open in our relationship to her about thinking about being a man or curious or even like, I didn't give her any inkling, you know, so there was a lot of shame around fighting so hard a part of myself and like, in turn, I felt like I wasted so much of my own time. And I didn't feel like I was wasting her time. But like, I felt like I wasted her sense of the truth for a long time. That she could have known me so much like more like at my route or like more of who I was. And there's so much about our relationship that mirrored more than like me being guarded about that part of myself. For some reason, like translate as like me being guarded by my family and me being like not being open about my life with her and kind of having this like, almost like wall I just like, like, I have like love and person like all these things, but there was something like missing, it felt like almost. And then when that when I finally got to tell that truth, it felt easy to be vulnerable about a lot of other things. But it wasn't easy for you.

Fifi

It was shocking. I think, exactly to what you're speaking though, I think, I think feeling like I knew someone, you're obviously the same person. It's not that you kind of at your core have shifted, I wouldn't be able to remain. If I felt like you were anyone other than who you are. That I think that was really all it was. for me. It was kind of a shocking, nervous system reaction. We're like, what does this mean? How are we going to change just concern over change, just like, this is a really big change. You're gonna go into surgery, I think, like, you know, fine, the way that I found out that you were thinking about going on HRT concern me only a little bit, because I found that because we share a YouTube account. I was watching videos about it. When at one point, you were pretty adamantly saying you weren't going to pursue it. And then I was like, alright, well, let's buckle up. We're gonna go under the knife, and we're gonna do some stuff. And I have a really cute video of us picking him up from his top surgery with the be the man song from Mulan.

Bear

I was on like, heavy anesthesia, I was like, Are you my wife? That's my best friend. Yeah, but yeah, I still was so like, still trying to convince her not to be afraid of certain things that I knew I was contending with. Like, at first I was like, I'm just gonna get top surgery, I'm not gonna go on HRT, like, I don't want that. And I was talking to a friend. And they said something really powerful, which was they said, like, if you know the truth about something like in your core, everything you do outside of that is a disservice to you, and whoever loves you, because they're not able to kind of see everything that's like alive in you. So age, it was like, always something that like when I was a kid, I always was what I envisioned myself growing up. I was like, I'm supposed to have a beard I'm supposed to. But it's not promise, though, from testosterone, that I get a beard, unfortunately. But this idea of like, aging and growing up the way that aligned with me. And so I was, yeah, on YouTube, looking at a 20 videos, like maybe I could go on a low dose, why? And then she saw that I was searching them. And it was like, What the fuck? Like, talk to me about these things. So I know what to prepare for..

Fifi

And how to help you too. And like be a support? No?

Bear

Yeah. I think you were mourning a lot. There's a lot of you saying of like, just feeling further from me. And like, there was a lot of you grieving parts of our relationship that made us more. I don't know, I think like you brought up like, you know, there's this bond created around women, hating men.

Fifi

Women. I think both of those things like the thought mostly, I think it was simultaneous, I think it was in kind of like a tethering that happened is that the opposite right like detaching that is happening in this process by the sheer nature of the fact that he is entering like a fuller version of himself, and that is his, and only his, you know, what he is experiencing in this moment, as this person I can't ever comprehend that and that you are separate from me now in that manner is, you know, I've only gotten to know the depth and the beauty of what that is, being with a trans person with time, I think, you know, yeah, at that moment, there was a letting go of him that I had to do for him to breach himself. And that was honestly also a gift to me too, because I've now had, I don't know I have a new sense of freedom as well. I think I had to To be more independent, I think when I thought both of us were women at that time, there was almost maybe a entanglement that wasn't serving me. Yeah. And I'm really grateful, honestly, for our differences. Now, in a way that yes, I think I was mourning that we are no longer the same in that manner where, where I feel very, very grateful I feel far from that now.

Bear

And we're like, Okay, so we're both Caribbean, we both have like a lot of like, rule like ancestral, like beliefs the way we were raised. So there was something very immediately familial about our bond, like a pawn because we kind of gave it space. And we didn't jump, like directly into this highly intense, like, romantic lead dance relationship. We took our time, but what we created was this kind of friendship and a companionship that was like a sisterhood. And like this kind of like, yeah, queerness of like being raised very similarly of like, knowing the same people, like, our culture has been really similar to each other, and like our upbringing. So there's kind of this immediate way of like, ride or diamond tight, like I got your back, like, I don't really know what this relationship is going to look like. And it's dynamic. I know that and there's a lot of space for that. But with that came this kind of like bond that was very, like twin flame. very attached to each other in this

Fifi

the way I describe it. I was like, I don't feel like I have a choice in the matter, right? Like that, here that you are my, something feels destined to here. I just I see myself building with you. I don't see myself ever not build on with you.

Bear

Yeah. And but what came with that? Was this, like, the investment? The investment? Yeah, when I kind of stepped into this idea of manhood, that felt that was jarring for you, that was just like, I built trust with you. No way that I wouldn't have done honestly, your man.

Fifi

You know what? And I honestly, also, that's part of what I celebrate, that you I think, you know, part of the beauty of being with you through your transition is that in a way that at least, you know, it was a gift to me, I don't think it was fun for you to remain in the closet for that much longer. I don't believe that at all. But for me, and for me, instead, it was actually my walls were taking down for the first time. I don't know, if I would have been able to find anyone other than you. Who could, you know, I don't think an experience like that can be replicated, where we had already reached such a depth. And I mean, perhaps other folks, you know, who stayed together through transition, know each other this way, like, you know, from still in the closet, to in the span of the relationship coming out while they're together. And then, you know, continuing to live a life together, post post transition. The thing I grieved the most was honestly my own ego around not having not being able to see it. I I was like, this was because we were we had already reached such a depth of connection. And I'm like, I can't believe I don't understand the trans experience. And it's I just really humbled me I think and part of that was grief was like feeling small. And again like the the fact that I cannot fix anything here. I really have to let go. I really have to just fucking be a cheerleader. Your is the only thing I have to do. Yeah, and so like it that was hard. That was hard for me because between us we know who likes to make all the I can be like a little bit of a commanding....

Bear

She's an alpha, yeah. So we are clear. That's what she's trying to say.

Fifi

Yeah, I can be a little militant at time. So I think that part was what I was grieving. And yeah, it brought me closer to him.

Effy

Though Bear & Fifi, were navigating the dynamics of their evolving relationship behind closed doors. As a member of a close six positive group, their relationship and best transition were being witnessed by their community.

Bear

I will be honest, at the sex positive scene, it was probably the easiest place to come out. I mean, it was literally like, "You look great! Anyways.." You know, there wasn't a lot of spectacle, but there wasn't a lot of, and there was a lot of affirmation, they didn't like make a scene about it, because it's a sex positive scene. And they were just like, "You look happy." I think that was the coolest thing to hear was not like, it was only guys who would come up to me, like, you look great, because men are gay. Constantly, like, looking at each other's bodies. But most of what I got was like, You look so happy, you look so much more comfortable.

Effy

While the sex positive community was the easiest to come out to forbear, it was also the hardest place to be fully seen.

Bear

I think that in the sex part and like relation to sex positivity in the scene, and my like, bottom, dysphoria became very shrill, like, became very hard. When I was like very much in this like queer body that was, you know, as I'm like, living as a butch woman, like being naked and queer spaces, or any sex wasn't as thought in my head. And now I have this body that is like very non binary, you know, and in that way, it was really hard to kind of get comfortable again and enter trans vessel and, and no one really did that onto me as much as like, society just kind of does that. But that was what became harder and texts, positive spaces of like, feeling relaxed. I think, like, I stopped, I used to receive pleasure and sex positive spaces in front of people all the time. And then I stopped doing that play parties, like I just couldn't. So like, in ways that like, my life has gotten better. There's, I don't think things got worse necessarily, as it made very apparent like that I've had, I've suffered with vitamins for my entire sex life. And what I thought was just kind of like, I thought it was very normal to check out while receiving pleasure, like I thought that was a very good like fantasize about something else or fantasize about your body being differently or having a different part. So that's how I thought that that was the house to go. very present and giving, but like in receiving there's like this. So when I came out and started to recognize that as bottomless were like, I'm checking out and thinking of myself in this way, because I want this to be a different experience. And insects, fathers faces that was pretty the hardest part, like cannot take off my underwear for I do not know why. Especially because I'm in a really a farming community. But yeah, it's been interesting.

Jacqueline

Sex is a big part of who Baron Fifi are. Their relationship started with them playing at a sex party in front of all their friends. They're active in the sex positive community, and their erotic intimacy coaches. So bears transition inevitably had an impact on this essential part of their lives.

Bear

I drank while I was going through my transition, you are also having this evolution regarding your sexuality as a whole, and your relationship to sex overall. And so I'm on testosterone, my sex drive is higher, I'm more comfortable in my body. And then I also have this like, desire to have like a certain kind of sex as well. And you are veering away from that kind of experience that binary experience and sex and wanting like a more spiritual, expansive, tantric, kind of routed version of NSX drive shifted. That's right, right, like just wanting to have less erotic intimacy overall.

Fifi

Yeah, I was shifting the way I wanted to engage with it very radically. You were kind of on polar ends of a spectrum. It felt like at the time, which is why it was so challenging, because a he was wanting a version that I was literally li retiring from at the moment. And that's what it was. I was like, I cannot believe this is happening in this moment because I am feeling a metaphysical obligation to enter a new relationship with erotic intimacy, that looks very, very different. It's very centered on things that we've actually incorporated and been able to blend with the binary or just the conventional sex version. Yeah, I think we are doing that quite nicely these days. So, you know, I think time is magic, it can really heal, especially, you know, given our connection and everything.

Bear

I think that we started and this high end sexual spirit, like literally our relationship took off and a play party where we parked in front of all of our friends, and that was kind of the crux of our relationship for the first year was our sexual compatibility. So it was kind of scary to enter the space where we were no longer sexually compatible. And what does that mean for the relationship? What does that mean for like, who we are to each other if we're not on the same alignment with this, this part of our lives? And what it taught me was kind of just like, how dynamic our relationship is how like, how inherently polyamorous our relationship is, like outside of our relationship? Yes, like that's the actual practice of polyamory, but our fluidity and our ability to kind of wear different hats for each other as friends, as business partners, as Beyonce is as chosen family as there's this kind of like, consistent commitment to each other, regardless of the shape our relationship takes. And that's what I derived from that it was still like a grieving or mourning, because then the question came up, like we can absolutely engage in erotic intimacy, the way that you're craving right now, what about my needs and how I still want to have sex that is affirming, for me that feels like full for me and nourishing for me. Yeah. And that was kind of the biggest challenge of like, when you're the person who was craving something, and the person's boundary is not as not having that kind of play, you have to honor that. And champion that. And also, you can't ignore that that is still something that feels real for you. So that was difficult, I think, because as a trans person, it was really challenging to find connections and felt fulfilling because of comfort. Honestly, like I want to my knee jerk, or my instinct is to have the sex that I crave with the person I'm craving it with, like the most who was the person I live with, or had this, this bond with. So now it's like, how do I create that experience with other partners or strangers are like yeah, that feels really hard. Yeah, so those those challenging?

Fifi

Yeah, I think that'll be like kind of a crux, maybe, I'm not sure if we'll ever get to a because the, the other sides of that coin is how sad and that makes me, you know, unless it changes who knows that I'll have a relationship to masculinity that I'll always have kind of like a boundaried sex etiquette around it. So that it's I'm always going to want to make but that's also why I love our place so much. That like it transforms to get queer I think and that's happened as a result of you just getting more comfortable in yourself. I think like, the queer it is, the more fun we both have. And it involves like a lot of different elements to I think relationship to penetrative play, is certainly, you know, shifting as we've introduced new things like buttholes playing with bubbles is so fun and And I think like you, being so gay..

Bear

It's true. That all so changed with my transition, my sexuality and all attracted to expand it's a great deal. Before I was on testosterone or even like thinking about transitioning, I think I'd always been attracted to men or masculinity in general, in a sexual sense, not in the way that I just want to embody it, which was hard to tell, right? Like, you gotta go, I want to be him or do I want to sleep? And this is weird question I kept asking myself and when I was like really young, like the first porn that I looked for was gay porn, which was like, I could not make sense of it. Like, at that age. I was like, I don't know why like this. None of that parts look like mine. But it's just like, makes a lot of sense to me. And I started testosterone and I had heard within like the trans masculine community, or people who take tea, the same story over and over again, I started taking tea, and now all of a sudden, I am so gay. I'm so attracted to other men and masculine and mighty people. And I was like, I was like, going after me, like, so like, too much. And it has totally shifted my experience. Or my, I think like before tea, I was like, I would sleep with a man or engage with a man in that way. But I would never actually seek it out. And now, I'm on Grindr and scrub and like, super fucking day. Right? The moral of the story.

Fifi

Yeah. Such a pleasure to witness.

Jacqueline

Well, being nesting partners and business partners has become a focus of their multifaceted partnership. Bears transition continues to be an important topic, day to day.

Bear

I think it's a continuous journey, I think different, it shifts like different things. You know, like, first it was just like initially transitioning and then we kind of had to tackle I bought them just for within our relationship, along with the shift of your like what you were craving sexually. So that was still like a focal point like me being trans.

Fifi

I think you him being trans will be a continuous experience for the duration of your life, because of the world that we live in. So it's going to be something that we're going to continuously acknowledge, I think, not only because we we do acknowledge it more probably than your typical trances couple, because we are very public about our life. But you know, as long as you have to go to the doctor, and just exists in the world, it's going to be a part of our lives your life.

Bear

Right, which in turn, will is a part of your life.

Effy

That decided to go through his transition publicly, which has mixed feelings about.

Bear

I tthink honestly, I could have done without being so public about my transition. I think it felt like obligatory at that point, because we had built such a following. And like I remember every trans person's kind of narrative is like, do I want to be seen, or like I want to be seen and held and witness, I don't want to expose myself too hard. And as a trans person, like being held and witness also combat the, the other side of being harmed. So what made it feel right to share my transition really was this like that we had a lot of queer and trans followers that like me being open about that open like ama is where people reach out to me about like, testosterone and having complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, because they know I have it. I'm also on testosterone, and I can talk about those. And I can share about things that doctors don't talk about like vaginal atrophy. And if you're not going to the guy know, once a year, as hard as it is, you have to go if you're on testosterone, because this thing that doctors are not talking about can be fatal, you know, when it goes untreated. So it felt like a duty to be honest to like as a forward facing person in our community and not in like an arrogant way but more on like people look at us for education. And so much of our education is rooted in us being authentic really, like what we do is share our experience And what we've derived from our experience. So for me to hide that part, felt like doing the community that I wanted to serve a disservice. But I wasn't excited. I hate people so much. I really do. And I really love people as a really absolutely disgusted by humanity every day. So like, exposing like and dance that almost do an action, not just transfer, like expose myself, I want love and also I'm terrified.

Fifi

Oh, yeah.

Bear

And that's what being forward facing is, like, I want to give love and educate. I'm also really scared about what people are going to say about my non monogamy. My Yeah, for sure. queerness my transition contending with bisexuality has been really difficult, like to be open about. So it's complicated, but worth it, I think. Yeah, I would say.

Fifi

And I would say that's the nature of the sort of the age of social media, because I think being forward facing mean something completely different than what it used to mean, you know, I think the ability, just the scale can feel kind of scary. And it and I think for myself, you know, I knew that your story was touching a lot of people. And it was important. And I'm really grateful that I lost interest in really growing a following. Because I think that is a true concern. You know, like what happens when you are put it feels like that's being put in harm's way. So in a way I think together, what we are really interested in is just building a community. Yeah.

Jacqueline

Although they've shared parts of their lives publicly to help others find community and support, the reflections and lessons learned have come in the quiet moments. For Bear. It started with the advice from his friend, who told him that hiding his truth would do a disservice to him, and those who love Him, and will prevent him from feeling fully alive. He learns that evolution includes fluidity that included fluidity in sexual attraction, and also fluidity and how he sees himself and his role in the world. He's come to more deeply understand that many things can be true at once. That transition can include love and fear, anticipation and mourning, connection, and distance. And for those going through or supporting a partner through their transition, he has advice to share.

Bear

I would say lovingly detach both partners of like, like the person undergoing a transition of sorts lovingly detach from their partner's experience of, of what's going to come up for them, like your partner is allowed to grieve. They're allowed to have their own experience of you changing in some capacity. And for the partner being partner to something transitioning, detaching yourself from their story, like, what does it mean for you is up for you to decide, right? Like, it's not really up for your partner who's transitioning to tell you what it means. So I've been creating space for each other, and then can mean like taking space and also literally creating space in the relationship for everything. And focusing on that is really important. I would say like, from me learning, like just being as transparent as possible as like you have access to is really important. Because if I could have mitigated surprise, I wouldn't have you know, and I think that but and then the third thing I'll say is also the partner receiving that having grace around that and knowing like, if you're not a transference and you don't know how scary it is to like confront the truth about yourself. So just really that space for everything is kind of like the heart of that like space for everyone's experience around it.

Effy

And for Fifi loving bear through his transition has revealed much about herself that both are found and surprised her. Though heavily guarded about her emotions at the beginning of the relationship. Fifi allowed herself to experience a deep level of intimacy with bow over time, in some part because she felt the bond of sisterhood. As a result of his transition. She has mourned the loss of that kinship, while finding herself more deeply connected to a man than she ever thought she could be. With the shifting sexual appetite and desire. She has found that intimacy has increased in other areas of their relationship while opening the door to a more expensive and creative sex life. With all this experience, there were lessons learned.

Fifi

For sis partners of people transitioning I would say Just going to support group just reading an article, just getting out of the brain wave that this has happened to you because it's not. So I think being in touch with the reality that this is not my experience and yeah if I have to grieve and mourn and finding the spaces to do that.

Jacqueline

If their story resonates with you, and you're looking for community and space to connect, you can find bear and Fifi via Instagram at Bear dot n dot Fifi, or reach out to them at Behr dot n dot v v@gmail.com. They offer a host of workshops, including breaking barriers on erotic intimacy. To find out more to register, go to their website, bear and fifi.com. And for men and masculine and bodied people, bears starting a group to create a container for discussion and, as he would put it, for men to work their shit out. subscribe to the newsletter to learn the details. For more episodes like this, show your love by liking this episode, following this podcast sharing with a friend and leaving us a comment on Apple, Spotify, Stitcher or wherever you're listening. We are taking a hiatus in August and won't be releasing any episodes that month. However, there are two things that you can do to stay connected to this curious and Foxy energy all summer. First, again, be sure that you're following this podcast so that you're notified when we're back and have a brand new episode for you. Second, visit our website. We are curious foxes.com and sign up for our newsletter to receive weekly email with our favorite podcast episodes. We've created mini bundles on jealousy, opening up sexual play exploration of self and some back to school goodies to listen to the episodes and read the blog posts on those topics and sign up for our newsletter so that these Favorites can make it to your inbox each week. While we're on hiatus, we're going to be sharing some Patreon only content to our patrons. To access those extras. Visit us at We are curious foxes on patreon.com. If you have show ideas for this fall, give us a call at 646-450-9079 or shoot us an email at listening at we are curious foxes.com. And finally, you can stay connected to us and other foxy listeners all summer long through our Facebook group. You can find our private Facebook group by going to facebook.com forward slash groups forward slash curious Fox.

Effy

Speaking of Facebook, I'm coming to you asking for help. real practical personal help. I've been locked out of my Facebook account for months now. In short, when I tried to log in, it's asking me for an authentication code from an app which I don't have. The login process sends me in circles with no resolution. I've scoured the internet for answers written to all emails and spoken to a bunch of people with no avail. I have been told the only way to resolve this is to somehow talk to someone at Facebook itself. So I come to you dear foxy listeners. Is there anyone out there who can help? I miss being in the curious Fox Facebook group. I missed the resources I was plugged into through Facebook. I miss birthdays. If you can help with this riddle, please, please, please reach out at listening. And we are curious foxes.com that's listening. And we are curious voices.com This episode is produced and edited by Nina Pollack, who embraces us with all our expressions. Our intro music is composed by dev Saha. We are so grateful for that work. And we are grateful to you for listening. As always, stay curious friends. According to the oh my god, this is going to be painful. I'm sorry. This episode is produced and edited by Nina Pollack, who embraces us who embraces Oh my god. Sorry, Nina. I hate that you ended up it's like our gift to you. And then we I screwed up. Sorry. Curious Fox podcast is not and will never be the final word on any topic. We solely aim to encourage curiosity and provide a space for exploration through connection and story. We encourage you to listen with an open and curious mind, and we'll look forward to your feedback. Stay curious friends. Stay curious and curious, curious and curious. Stay curious. Stay curious.

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