Ep 154: Sex in the Bible, an Easter Egg Hunt with De-Andrea Blaylock-Solar
Is there Biblical scripture that condones or encourages sexual exploration? Why would God design bodies that experience pleasure if we are not supposed to pursue pleasure? Can faith and sexuality coexist?
In this episode, Jacqueline resurrects a conversation she had with Effy and De-Andrea Blaylock-Solar. They embark on an Easter egg hunt to find passages and scriptures in the Bible that talk about sex - not as a vehicle to hell, but as a beautiful, sensual, expression of joy and connection (marriage not required).
To learn more about De-Andrea
De-Andrea Blaylock-Solar (she/her) is Missouri’s first Black AASECT-Certified Sex Therapist and a supervisor for social workers seeking clinical licensure in the State of Missouri. She has worked in the field of behavioral health for over 15 years. As a graduate of Saint Louis University, she majored in social work and minored in theology before completing a Master of Social Work degree at Washington University in St. Louis. She sees herself as a catalyst for positive change, serving as a collaborator and co-facilitator in healing and enjoys the journey of working with her clients.
As the owner of Sankofa Sex Therapy, LLC, she works with individuals and those in all types of relationships and provides therapy from a Christian perspective when requested. She conducts workshops about sexuality, intimacy, and sensuality, and is a member of the Leadership Collective of the Women of Color Sexual Health Network (WOCSHN). She also serves as a Facilitator with Theater of War Productions, completing two off-Broadway runs of the critically-acclaimed Antigone in Ferguson.
Instagram: @sankofasex
Website: sankofasextherapy.com
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TRANSCRIPT:
Jacqueline
Welcome to the Curious Fox podcast for those challenging the status quo and love, sex and relationships. My name is Jacqueline Misla. We've done over 150 episodes over the last three years. But this is the first time that I've ever done that intro. My co-host Effy Blue has been recording a few episodes on her own while I've been working on other projects, so I wanted to have a turn and have some time with you all on my own. Specifically, I wanted to resurrect a conversation that you and I had about sex in the Bible in advance of Easter weekend. When I was about 15, I did a mini sermon on one of Jesus's last words. See leading up to Easter, there is Good Friday, which is representative of the day that Jesus was crucified. There is Holy Saturday or Black Saturday, which commemorates Jesus's death and his time in the tomb. And then Easter Sunday, when Christians and Catholics celebrate the resurrection of Christ. On Good Friday, the practice of the church that I attended as a kid was to do a sermon on the last seven words of Christ. And they decided that seven members of the youth group would choose and speak about one of those seven phrases. These statements are noted in the Bible as the last seven things that Jesus said, each holding a deeper meaning for us to draw from, starting with Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do, which Jesus utters from the cross looking down at the crowd of people who are mocking him, screaming at him, and gambling for his belongings, when one of the two men who are dying on the crosses next to him, turns to Jesus and asked to be remembered when he goes to heaven. Jesus says, Today, thou shalt be with me in paradise. As his mother weeps on the ground below him, he says to her Woman, behold thy son, and then turns to one of his disciples and says, Behold thy mother, as the hours pass, and the pain becomes literally excruciating. Jesus looks up at the sky and says, My God, why hast thou forsaken me? His lips, chapped and bleeding, he says, I thirst, prompting a Roman soldier to dip a sponge in vinegar and put it to his lips. Following this, Jesus says, It is finished. And with that, he cries out in a loud voice, father into thy hands, I commend my spirit. And after 33 years on Earth, and several hours on the cross, he dies. My role on that particular Good Friday was to share a mini sermon about his reclamation, My God, why hast thou forsaken me? I talked about how some theologians suggest that God was so disgusted by the actions and sins of man that he turned away, leaving Jesus to feel the unimaginable absence of God. Others say that Jesus held the full weight of our collective sin while on the cross, and as a result, felt the separation from God and the abandonment that sin inherently brings. I talked about how our thoughts and words and actions must draw us closer to God instead of choosing a path of separation. Now, the irony, of course, was that I did feel abandoned by God. During the years preceding and following that talk in front of the church, I believed that God was so disgusted by my sexuality so repelled by my masturbation and impure thoughts, so repulsed by my attraction to multiple genders, that he could not look at me, could not be close to me, and certainly could not love me as I was. As I stood on the pulpit and said the words, why has thou forsaken me? It echoed the question that I asked each night in my prayer. Here's, as I tried to reconcile the desires of my body and the desires of my soul. This battle waged war within me for years, years of shame, years of fear, years of secrecy, years of feeling abandoned in my soul, pretending that all was well in my actions and my words, I spent the first 30 years of my life, suffocating what I wanted in order to fulfill what others wanted from me. And I've spent the last 10 years deconstructing those ideas, and rebuilding a life rooted in my own truth, which for me, includes a higher being that loves me without question. Part of what's helped me heal from those god awful Bible stories was a new look at those stories from a new lens. And one of the people who helped me see the Bible and my sexuality with new eyes was the Andrea Blaylock Johnson. De Indra has worked in the field of behavioral health for over 15 years. And through her practice and COFA sex therapy. She helps people of every orientation, gender and relationship construct, we think about sexuality and intimacy, often through the lens of Christianity and faith. In this conversation a few years back, Effie DeAndre, and I explore the origins of the Bible, and revisit the stories that I learned in Sunday school with some surprising results. Our conversation starts with Effies non Christian perspective on the Bible, enjoy.
Effy
I have never really had a good reason to take a deep dive into the word. Then Jacqueline suggested that we do this Easter Special curious Fox way. And there was my reason. And no, I didn't read the whole book that was written over almost 20 centuries, translated into 2000 languages that divided and united people and civilizations in a week. But I did do a bunch of research into sex in the Bible. And I have to say, my research kicked off with a disappointing start. Lee accurate Fox hold curiosity and feminism at the top of our value system. If you've been listening to us for a while you know this. And the whole book starts with God casting Adam and Eve out of Eden, because Eve gets curious and succumbs to her hunger for knowledge, literally, and she eats a fruit from the tree of knowledge. And then as if being cast out isn't enough, she then gets the pain of childbirth and menstruation as punishment for eternity. Hmm. Apparently, everybody knows this, but me. I'm not impressed. I feel like the only way to find faith is through exploration. And the only way to explore is through curiosity. Faith without curiosity is blind faith. And blind faith will only make you bump into things, some of which can hurt a lot. Yeah, absolutely. The Bible
Jacqueline
and the faith around those words, and those collections of stories have wielded tremendous power over the course of centuries.
Effy
As I was researching for this episode, I couldn't help but feel that the Old Testament feels a lot like Game of Thrones, which at some point had stopped watching because of all the violence, especially its sexual violence. And then Jesus comes along and it becomes very Harry Potter. And everyone's like, Yay, the war famine the persecution of all testaments over hashtag Jesus hashtag Christianity.
Jacqueline
Exactly. Like Harry Potter. Everyone's like, let me choose my house. I'm Protestant, I'm Baptist, I Methodist. And
Effy
that's really what it feels like. On an ever so slightly serious note. I think the study of the Bible in any religious text is essential to put stories into context. Biblical structure has long been used to cast fear and judgment and shame when it comes to sexuality. But many of us are not clear about how those particular stories made it into the holy book. The scriptures are full of tales of love and lust, Adam and Eve, Sodom and Gomorrah, the 700 wives of King Solomon, Jesus and the adulterous are but a few of these stories. Indeed, sex is an integral part of the Holy Scripture.
Jacqueline
And so, on this Easter Special episode, Deirdre helps us on an Easter egg hunt to find references of sex and sexuality that have been hidden in plain sight. She invites devoted followers of the word and those who choose brunch over the Bible on any given Sunday to revisit what they know about those millennial old parables. I think that for centuries religious folk have leveraged the Bible to create fear and shame around sexuality. There's a lot of sex in the Bible.
De-Andrea
Oh, it's a whole lot of sets. It's a whole lot of sex. And I love it wasn't in a bad situation, right? But yeah, there's lots of sex in the Bible, and even places where it's seen as a beautiful exchange of energy and love between people who weren't married, by the way. But yeah, yeah, lots of sex in the Bible. Yeah.
Jacqueline
And even that, just that little thing that you just said in, they weren't married, like that feels like so many years of my life and church was around, you got to make sure that you're married. So I am wondering if you can give some examples of some passages that we maybe need to revisit? And let me let me give some context there. I follow you on social media. And if people do not follow you on social media, they absolutely should, because it's fantastic. And one of the stories that you shared was from someone who you followed, and they were talking about a story in the Bible and sharing, you know that what it first appears to be is, there's actually more to it than that. And it made me think that the Bible is a little bit of a treasure hunt.
Effy
Absolutely, yeah, it's
Jacqueline
a little bit, if you apply context, if you apply some etymology, if you like, really kind of pull back the curtain and look beyond what you hear at the pulpit. There's some real stories in there.
De-Andrea
Oh, this stuff gets real, really real, really real. thinking specifically about the story of Ruth and Boaz. And so I think about how within faith communities, their relationship is touted as like, this is what you want your marriage to be. And you want to be like Ruth, found in the field working for your Boaz, or you know, something like that. These are the random things I've heard specifically at women's conferences.
Jacqueline
So for those who are not familiar, here's a quick version of the story. Naomi is married to Elimelech. They have two sons, maroon, and Chilean. They leave their hometown of Israel because of famine, and Elimelech dies. And the sons get married to women from another tribe, one of whom is named Ruth, the sons eventually die. And now the three widows live together trying to figure out how to live in a time where connection to a man is important for survival. The women go back to Israel in the hopes of finding some food and end up working for a relative of eliminex to harvest Bailey. Bo, as a relative of Elimelech, who owns the field takes a liking to Ruth. And so Ruth's mother in law, Naomi has an idea. She says my daughter, I must find a home for you, where you will be well provided for now, Boaz, with whose women you have worked is a relative of ours. Tonight, he's going to be winnowing barley in the threshing floor, wash, put on perfume, and get dressed in your best clothes, then go down to the threshing floor. But don't let him know that you're there until he has finished eating and drinking. When he lies down, note the place where he's lying, and then go and uncover his feet and lie down. He will tell you what to do.
De-Andrea
Within that story, there is a passage where it talks about Ruth uncovering Boaz his feet. And so it's important to understand that feet is used as a euphemism for genitalia of any gender, actually, but specifically within this passage says the roof uncovered his feet on the threshing floor. And so within that context, also with the way in which that word was used, at that time, and writings and not just in what we can and asked in the Bible, but other writings of the time, it was used as a euphemism for feet.
Jacqueline
The book of Ruth continues, in the middle of the night, something startled the man. He turned and there was a woman lying at his feet. Who are you? He asked. I am your servant, Ruth. She said, spread the corner of your garment over me, since you are the Guardian redeemer of our family.
De-Andrea
Yeah, is an Oregon. So know that that's what was going on. She wasn't given him a foot massage. Or something else. It's a possibility could be. But yeah, it's just important to understand that context and also the different words that were used and why they were used.
Jacqueline
The next morning, Ruth slips out before anyone can see her but not before Boaz gives her six measures of barley so that she doesn't leave empty handed. Naomi's plan works and eventually bow As pays off the debt from the land of Elimelech, and marries Ruth, and the women are once again taken care of.
Effy
See, that's what I'm saying. This has all the makings of a best selling story, death, power, sex,
Jacqueline
the damsel in distress.
Effy
Exactly. As I did my biblical deep dive, I found so many stories where sex was used as an act of violence or power. I'm wondering, are there stories in the Bible where sex is seen as something intimate and beautiful?
De-Andrea
Yeah, well, you know, I think about how I have not heard very many sermons where the Song of Solomon or the Song of Songs was the text where the pastor or priest preached specifically from from that area. And often, when looking at that book, people instead of taking it at face value of a relationship between two lovers, they'll say, oh, that's just an allegory of how God wants the relationship between him and the church, as opposed to just looking at is, I mean, there could be like, these two people really were digging each other, and obviously having sex. It is a beautiful depiction of two lovers exchanging these kind, beautiful words. It's all history. You know, they're talking about how much they care about each other. They're talking about how much they enjoy sex with each other. They're talking with their friends about how fly their lover is like, it's a great exchange. It's like I said, it's poetry. It's a great exchange between partners who are not married.
Jacqueline
I slept but my heart was awake, a sound, My beloved is knocking. Open to me, my sister, my love, my dove, my perfect one, for my head is wet with dew and my locks with the droplets of the night. I put off my Garmin, how can I put it on? I bathed my feet? How could I soil them? My beloved put his hands to the latch, and my heart was thrilled within me. I arose to open to my beloved, and my hands dripped with mer, my fingers with liquid mer on the handles of the bolt. I open to my beloved, by my beloved had turned and gone. My soul failed me as he spoke, I sought him but I found him not. I called him, but he gave no answer. The watchman found me, as they went about into the city, they beat me, they bruised me, they took away my veil, those watchmen of the walls, I adore you, oh, Daughters of Jerusalem, if you find my beloved, that you tell him that I am sick with love.
De-Andrea
And so it's not that it's between King Solomon, who had a whole bunch of wives and a whole bunch of concubines, right, and the Shulamite woman who is a black woman, and I specifically say that she is a black woman. Because often, in our society, we do not have a lot of examples where someone is specifically named as being dark, but also praised for their beauty. And we have a very clear depiction of that in the Bible, in Song of Solomon, I think about the end of chapter four, going into the beginning of chapter five. And I think that it is possibly alluding to oral sex. And so it's where she is speaking and saying, like, come into my garden, breathe of its fresh fruits, and so on and so forth. And then like the beginning of chapter five, he says, I went to the garden, and the fruit was delicious. And I think about how as a think I was 19 or 20, and had a conversation with someone who was a young married woman, and just asked, you know, is oral sex a sin? Because it was just a question that I had, I wanted to know, Is this considered sinful? And I was asked specifically, like, even in marriage is oral sex, the sand? And her response was that I don't know that it's sinful, but I don't think that you should have oral sex because your mouth is used for praise, praise to God. And so like that's so layered, right? Because it's the idea that genitals are dirty, right? Your mouth is also used to eat. It's so interesting, the hierarchy that that things are placed on within our own bodies that we place on ourselves, but specifically within reason isn't. And so I'm glad that I kind of just took that and was like, Oh, okay. I didn't like take it to heart. But I know a lot of people who received these types of teachings. But I am grateful for the end of chapter four in the beginning of chapter five in Song of Solomon, where it gives this depiction that's like, oh, maybe that's what they were talking about right there. Mm hmm.
Jacqueline
Again, I think why that's so important, for me at least, is that there's this idea that missionary sex is like the only sanction sex and that in the Bible, that was the and you're like, That can't be true. That's, that's not a thing. That was, why would God give us all of these amazing, or nerve endings, and fingers and toes and vows and bodies and just expect us to be so limited and lack creativity?
De-Andrea
Well, exactly. And I think about how most people with BBs needs some type of direct clitoral stimulation in order to achieve orgasm. And I believe that the God I serve as a god of purpose, and if the only purpose of the clitoris is pleasure, why would the only sanctioned way to have sex not provide direct stimulation to it?
Jacqueline
Mm hmm. Yes, no, I agree with you. Can you just like take a step back, let's paint a picture of these stories, that this collection of stories of fables of parables of potential narratives that are shared and held with such significance for so many, how did we even get this in our hands? Can you give me a sense of like, what is it that we are actually holding?
De-Andrea
Yeah, so I'll kind of give the quick and dirty. I'll start with the New Testament. So you have people who knew Jesus as a living breathing person who walked with him. And some of them wrote their own narratives. Even if they didn't write their narratives, they shared their stories. And then other people, whether they were their progeny, or people who knew them, wrote what they learned from these people, right. And so the gospels were actually not written, not that to have been written until several years after Jesus was crucified. So it's a possibility that the gospels that we the the four books that we refer to, as the Gospels weren't actually specifically written by people who lived and walked with him, but possibly people who knew the people who lived and walked with him. So then you fast forward, and you have also letters, which is what we base a lot of our Christian doctrine upon. Paul didn't even know Jesus like that. He's probably a problematic faith for a lot of people problematic in a lot of ways. He was actually a persecutor of Christians. And so he was converted on the road to Damascus. And then from there, he was like a gung ho Christian, like, you know, just all for it. And so also had the idea that, you know, Jesus is coming back tomorrow. So like, we need to get right for his return. And the idea was that Jesus was retired was imminent, it was it was a very close. And so you can almost sense a certain desperation in his letters. Like I said, most of the letters are attributed to Paul, but some are, they may be attributed to him, but still thought to possibly have been written by someone else.
Effy
So a quick interlude, during my crash course into the origins of the Bible, in preparation for this conversation, I learned a lot, not only about the content of the book, but the history of the book itself. I'm going to whiz through it here to give you all some basic context, if you're interested, please do your own research. My word is certainly not the gospel. The initial draft of the Bible was originally written in Hebrew, and it was translated into Greek in a third century BCE, because Greek was most common language of the time, then it stays in circulation in Greek for a long time. Along the way, it gets a bunch of new edits some books or added some taken out or letters and poems and stories. Then around 90 BCE, the council of jamea, gathers and decides on the director's cut of the Old Testament based on three principles, one historical accuracy. That's history since the beginning of time to the passages are written by a great patriarch, but there was a problem my friend, and three know passages in conflict with one another On, essentially whitewashing the content. Then Jesus comes along and he's using the Old Testament as his Bible. Around 100 CE, Paul starts writing letters also in Greek. At this point, the whole thing is in pieces, draft Director's Cut stories here, letters there. That's a work in progress. You know, the fourth century, Constantine Commission's, the complete works, he's like enough for the draft and the edits. Let's have this done. So the ot the letters, and some additional text goes into one book, and he has 50 of them written by hand. As soon as the 50 books are completed in Greek scholars started translated into a bunch of languages so they can spread the word. At the beginning of the fifth century, a scholar named Jerome translates the Hebrew and the Greek version into Latin, which becomes the Bible. At the time, people are actually speaking in Latin, and saying cool stuff like kokuto ergo sum. But by the 12th century, Roman Empire has fallen, and no one's really speaking Latin anymore, mostly religious folks, and pompous scholars. So the Bible makes it over the channel and gets into the British Isles, and starts to be translated into the most common language of the people. Upon hearing this, the religious leaders and rulers get their knickers in a twist, because now everyone can actually read the Word of God for themselves, rather than take their word for it. So they start to ban all these books. Late in the 14th century, the Bible was translated into English, the language of the people at the time, unofficially, at this point, the church is playing Whack a Mole with all these copies, they don't want them around, and the people who have them are taking a huge risk by having them plus, everything is still being written by hand, right? There are only a few copies around, and they're expensive as hell. So we have the chronicles of God and Jesus by the people written in Hebrew, then translated into Greek along with Paul's letters and a bunch of other texts, then it gets translated into a bunch of local languages, until the whole thing gets translated into Latin. And the church covers his version because nobody understands it, until it gets unofficially translated in English, but it's super scares. All this happens over centuries, and by hand, at a time, not many people can actually read and write, then technology to the rescue. The Gutenberg press was invented in the middle of the 15th century in Germany, arguably the most important invention of the modern human civilization. That's another podcast. And of course, the first book haggard mag prints is, you guessed it, the Bible, in Latin, lacks imagination if you ask me. By the middle of the 16th century, the Latin Bible was translated and printed into 14 languages, mostly European and Nordic, no official English version just yet. Then came along a guy called William Tyndall, who translated the Greek Bibles into English, thus creating the first English New Testament, which was allowed back on mainland. Finally, in 1611, we get the King James Bible sanctioned by the crown, which is the Bible as we know it today. But since the King James Bible, there has been over 900 translations and paraphrases of the Bible, plus 2000, other translations of the Bible is available worldwide. That's one hell of a journey for one book.
Jacqueline
I appreciate you framing that, because what it means is that the book that we are holding is a book written in different languages, from different cultures, from different people from different time periods, some of whom may have been there, some of whom heard the stories via telephone, that then came together by another group of people many years later, who chose which versions of the books which books period, and what versions of them and what segments of them should be put together to tell a particular story. Mm hmm.
Effy
It's fascinating to me that they seem to all agree that sex is bad, and homeless, I
Jacqueline
was gonna ask that along the way.
Effy
One prevailing thing seems to be all that, so I'm kind of, I'm kind of amazed that it made it through so many layers, and that sex is bad, but nobody along the way we're like, Guys, we should revise this.
De-Andrea
What what's important to note is that pre Christian, Hebrew faith did not separate the body and the spirit it like it was one it was it was all one. And so when the books of the New Testament were being written, the philosophy of the day was one of asceticism, that idea that in order to get closer to God, you had to separate from the body. So that means that I can't enjoy the pleasures that my body gives, in order to be close to God. Now, like I said, that was the philosophy of the day. That idea in itself is inherently not Christian. Right. But that was the philosophy that was going on, as the different books were being written. And so just like an author today, would infuse different thoughts that are permeating society. Same thing happened back then. And so came into being I came in to really fruition that this idea that in order to be close to the Christian God, then I have to separate from the body, I can't enjoy sex. I can't participate in sex outside of procreation. But like I said, and looking at pre Christian Hebrew religion, that wasn't true. That was the philosophy of the day, which was secular, but it was just kind of gathered up. Yeah.
Effy
And just I'm curious, I don't know if you heard the answer to this. Is it even recorded to the why that was like the hashtag no body no pleasure in that moment, you know, like, Why Why were we so against pleasure of the of the body. In that period, what was triggering this idea that in order to be close to God, you couldn't feel pleasure with your body? It comes from
De-Andrea
platonic and Neoplatonic thought Plato and his homies had this idea about asceticism. asceticism is it's like a severe self discipline, and avoidance of all forms of indulgence. for religious reasons. It was the idea that the body kind of holds the spirit back from reaching its highest potential.
Effy
I mean, that idea is actually in other teachings as well, right? It's in Buddhism, it's an Islam. So this idea that body somehow are like flesh and blood somehow gets in the way of our spiritual existence seems to be like, seems to prevail for some reason. And I liked where you said earlier about that you believe in a God of purpose. And it just seems like an awful waste of engineering, to have our bodies which are absolutely fascinating, amazingly designed, and to be like, but by the way, it gets in the way, I'm just like, I don't like to me, I don't quite. And I'm not saying that's a Christian idea. It is like it seems to be across all of religious teaching. I just can't understand that, like the reasoning that says, your body gets in the way of your spiritual expression.
Jacqueline
No, I could get that. I mean, Fe, I think you and I feel that way all the time. We think our humanity and our bodies get in the way of everything. I'm like, Ah, sleeping and eating. So it's a waste of time, like I need. If I could just live in my brain and didn't have to carry this body around things would be so much better. I understand that rationale. But we're moving towards I think what we're trying to figure out now is no actually experiences in the now in our body VR sensation via touch via, like, I think that actually, if a book were going to be written now, if the Bible was going to be written now, I think it would have a very different context. Because people have that understanding that we have lived in our imagination and in our minds for too long and actually also needs to live in our
De-Andrea
bodies. Absolutely. Like I just think about, I was talking with a friend yesterday about some peach butter, and thinking about how excited I am to go to the orchard to pick peaches this summer. And I was thinking about the pleasure of biting into a juicy ripe peach right of features. Right? But just thinking about how enjoying that little bit of pleasure allows me to be present in the moment. One of my really good friends, she's probably one of the smartest people I know, but she's taught me that all there is is right now. The past is a figment of our imagination in the future. We may not see it, it may not happen. But all there is is right now and so like when I'm biting into that peach, I am grateful for the bees, right pollinating it. I'm grateful to God that I picked the right peach, that is delicious. That is juicy just enough. And that makes me think about other religious teachings as well as the ideas of mindfulness and how helpful that can be in helping us to really appreciate and understand our inexperience our sexuality is full and complete beings.
Jacqueline
Yeah, I completely agree with you.
Effy
That is the Bible message I can get behind. So we know that A, the people who wrote the Bible may not have been there be the books and words were curated and translated over the course of centuries. And see, when discussed now, many of us do so without real context. It's no wonder that little lessons like this feel like Easter eggs that must be sought out and uncovered. And, you know,
De-Andrea
a lot of times though, they're not reading it, or they're only reading what is spoon fed to them. Because it's easier that way. It's easier to just take someone's word at it instead of self investigation and really trying to figure out okay, who is this person? And also a think about how, unfortunately, Christianity has been used to uphold systems of white supremacy. But when we look at the root of our faith, it's about justice. It's about fighting for who's considered the least of these those who don't have access to these systems of power. It's almost infuriating, because it's like, Nah, man, Jesus didn't say that.
Effy
It's like, when they meant Hollywood makes terrible movies of good books. It feels like like the sermons or like that most people digest the Bible and their understanding of faith in their religion is through like terrible, terrible movies of the book. And if they were just to sit and read through the full, you know, trilogy, or whatever the you know, whatever the volumes are, that you would they would get an entirely different experience.
De-Andrea
Yes, absolutely. I completely agree. Yeah. Yeah.
Jacqueline
So then let me ask you that kind of as a final question for those who want sexual expression to be a part of their self expression. What do you hope that they find in the Bible that gives them examples and inspiration and comfort,
De-Andrea
freedom in Christ? I think about how there's a scripture that says, I came that you might have life and have it more abundantly. And that abundant life includes good sex that abundant life includes freedom to express who you are. That abundant life includes understanding that Psalm 139 applies to me too. It means that I am fearfully and wonderfully made. How I show up how I choose to show up in this world is a divine creation and reflection of who God is like, that's what I hope people have the opportunity to really understand and grasp for themselves.
Effy
That's beautiful. Amen to that.
Jacqueline
For more on DeAndre Blaylock Johnson, visit her at Sankofa sex therapy.com and on Instagram at St. Kofa sex. The links are in our show notes. In exchange for sharing my most personal and vulnerable stories with you. I have a request. Please rate this episode on whatever app that you're using and leave a comment. Each week we get amazing emails and DMS from listeners telling us how much they enjoy the podcast and how it's impacted them in their relationships. We love reading those words and we want others to read them too. So please follow rate and comment on your podcast app because it allows other listeners to find us. share this episode with a friend. It could be your Easter gift to someone in your life. Be sure to join us on our Facebook group at we're curious boxes or if you're already in the group and post a comment and start a conversation. What was your experience with church and the Bible? To this episode? Hope you see those old stories in a new light. Let us know on the curious Fox Facebook group. And for podcasts, extras online workshops and talks and a ton of bonus content. The go to Patreon @wearecuriousfoxes. And if you're too shy for the podcast app or the Facebook group, then you can DM FB on Facebook or better yet, send us an email or voice memo to listening@wearecuriousfoxes.com This episode is produced by Effy Blue and Jacqueline Misla with help from Yağmur Erkişi. Our editor is Nina Pollock, who is the fancy chocolate in our Easter egg basket. Our intro music is composed by Dev Sahar. We are so grateful for the work and we're grateful to you for listening. As always, stay curious friends.
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