Ep 8: Vision and Mission of Curious Fox

Who is Curious Fox?

Effy and Jacqueline call a family meeting to discuss the vision for Curious Fox and invite you to be a part of the mission.

To find more about Effy Blue and Jacqueline Misla, follow them at @wearecuriousfoxes, @coacheffyblue, and @jacquelinemisla on Instagram.

If you have a question that you would like to explore on the show, reach out to us and we may answer your question on one of our upcoming episodes. Leave us a voicemail at 646-450-9079 or email us at listening@wearecuriousfoxes.com

Follow us on social media for further resources on this topic:
fb.com/WeAreCuriousFoxes
instagram.com/wearecuriousfoxes

Join the conversation: fb.com/groups/CuriousFox

Support the show

TRANSCRIPT:

Curious Fox

Hello, hi. Hi. Hi. Hello. I'm curious about curious about I'm curious about cute is about building open, authentic, loving relationship? I'm curious about jealousy. I'm curious about polyamory, just mean that you're fucking all the time. How can I tell my parents that my partner is already married and curious about how do you know when you're too busy to have another relationship? I'm curious about dominant and subordinate relationship. I'm curious about sexual health. How can relationships evolve with people as they grow and change?

Effy

Hi, I'm Effy Blue.

Jacqueline

And I'm Jacqueline Misla. And this is the Curious Fox podcast. So today's episode is gonna be a little different than our usual episodes, today's gonna be a good one for any of you who have been with us for a while, or those of you who are just tuning in for the first time, and are curious about what's going on with you curious about what who we are and what we're doing. So this is episode eight.

Effy

Indeed, so we thought we'll do something a little different. So regularly, Jackie, and I will have these vision meetings. And the purpose of those meetings is to make sure that we are still aligned with our core purpose, and values that we have adapted for curious Fox, and to make sure that our work is in line. And normally we do this, the two of us or whoever else is available during that time. And then..

Jacqueline

We should bring people on board where they come and meet with us, vision with us

Effy

Exactly, you have ideas, you want to hear them all. So this time, though, we want to take that attitude of come and join us to a mass scale, and invite you and invite you into this meeting invite you into the into our visioning for a couple of purposes. One, this is a community effort. So we want you to be we want you to bear witness to what we're working on. And also we want to hear from you if we are and we know we're on the right path if we're doing the right things, or what are we missing, right? And get your feedback on, on what you want to hear from us and what you want us to do.

Jacqueline

Yeah, so that's part of the goal is to get a sense of what you're interested in. It's also so this month, we are in August, depending on where you're listening to it when you're listening to it. When we recorded it, it was August. And the theme of this month is family. So we thought that maybe we want to have a little bit of a family meeting to reflect on where we are and where we're going. And in the midst of that there are two questions that we often get asked. The first is, how did this get started? And so we thought it might be fun to do a little bit of an origin story of a very superhero of us. And the second question that we get asked a lot is, well, what can I do to be involved? How can I help I love the work that you're doing. And so we want to share those details as well. So let's start with our origin story.

Effy

Right? I feel like you hear from us all the time. But not everybody knows. Why are you here? Why is why? So I'll start with myself. My name is Effie blue. I'm a relationship coach by day. I work predominantly with people who are curious about transitioning into or have hit a roadblock in open relationships. So most of my clients are couples who are interested in opening up their relationships, I also work with people who are solo and navigating the dating world in the hope of finding a an open relationship or polyamorous relationship. I also work with people who are already existing in non traditional setups, and they find that they can't find resources. And we're going to talk a little bit about that in the world to support them. And, and so I work with those people. It's super interesting, I love my work i does i coach around this idea of relationship by design, I truly believe that we should actively and consciously design our relationships in a way that we thrive. And it sounds great. It sounds almost obvious, but it is actually really hard to do. Because we exist in a world that really has a one size prescription for all of this stuff. And that's exactly what we're gonna get into.

Jacqueline

Because, yeah, imagine so many people come to you and say, I'm feeling this thing or we were thinking about this thing, but I know it's crazy. Like it like I know what I'm all alone and no one else actually,

Effy

actually should do my next question on the way out. So it's, um, you know, in that a lot of this my experience with my clients and one on one has formed a lot of the ideas and the structures behind curious Fox and again, this is all what we're going to go and get into in this particular episode. So besides working with people on designing their relationships, I also have a passion project called Play party etiquette. Play party etiquette was originally designed for those who are interested in attend During sex parties, and there is a there is a big overlap between people who are exploring non monogamy and people who are enjoying sex parties. And everybody has these like crazy ideas about what six parties are and some people are intrigued and what they like, I could never go to one or, or they're really think this looks like one thing and they you know, but it may not be. So I actually sort of I was taken to my first six party, I'm almost by accident and...

Jacqueline

Need to understand that

Effy

I'll come story on another day. It was kind of intentional, but also accidental, I really wasn't supported or

Jacqueline

like in any kind of cocktail party.

Effy

Exactly, exactly. Um, that I will my pretty leakers. Um, that's another story for another time. But, um, I went to my first exposure with somebody and it was amazing. It changed my life. And but but even though it changed my life, and it was great, I realized how, how I wasn't prepared, and how easy could have been to be prepared, like the set of information that you would need it to really make that first experience more comfortable and confident. So I went about putting that material together. Initially, it was a workshop called Play party etiquette. And then I wrote a book and then we produced the written booklet. And then now I'm collaborating with an amazing artist friend of mine to create a illustrated, illustrated, printed version of it that is somewhere between pleasure based sex education for adults, how to navigate how to navigate consent when you partner is an art book.

Jacqueline

Yeah, it's gorgeous, beautiful, beautiful. I'm that's what I love too about you. It's just the fact that you're like, you go to this very fe go to a sex party and then walk away with actually, they could do a lot things differently. I'm going to take the lead on that I'm going to actually write the book and do a workshop. So it wasn't just like, I need to be more prepared. Let me make a list. Let me share out the list. Let me do a PowerPoint to do a webinar. And then let me and then with the accent to play party etiquette. It just sounds so so much fancier.

Effy

Yeah, yeah, I know. I know. And it's fun, like good. It's like sardines. We'll talk about those in the wintertime. So those are my those are my sort of other side, you know, side projects. And then, of course, Curious Fox. And the fun thing about curious Fox is that it was supposed to be a networking event. I wish it had like more glorious beginnings.

Jacqueline

That's like, the cocktail party that turned into a networking event.

Effy

Yeah, exactly. As I was starting my coaching practice, someone was like, you know, it was really good to create an event and you can invite people do it's a really good, really good way to network. I was like, oh, yeah, sounds a good idea. But of course, like the play parties

Jacqueline

by networking event, I mean, annual conference, and monthly panel discussions and expert led events. Yes, that's

Effy

Exactly. That's pretty much how it worked out. I was like, you know, networking event sounds not that much value. How about we put a pedal in how about we do some games? How about we have takeaways. So yeah, that was the first first curious Fox social. And then it was cool. It was packed. And then I was like, Whoa, what's going on? Maybe I have that many friends you know? So I thought well, I'll do it again. doing them regularly is a thing and I did it again. And then it was you know, it was full again and we keep going and and in the community group grew around it and as it did I really made me look at why that was happening. Why something that I kind of together great something I pulled together for other intentions like why was it so important for people why people were coming in at the time, events were donation only they were just like, you can't be donated, and people were coming in people donating and people were saying like, keep going, we can't wait for the next one. We're like, well, what's going on? And that alongside with my coaching practice, I realized that this work of trying to have an a non traditional non prescribed relationship is really tough to do solo. And what were people what was resonating for people was the, the community that they were meeting who were willing to sit around, listen to those panel discussions, ask those questions, and, and really sort of finding support around that and, and when I was directing my clients to these socials, things have changed. Like they were like, it was so much easier now they had more progress around things. And the whole thing kind of aligned in a way that really supports the work today and it makes sense and it also became this like passion project and that's that's how the how my side of curious Fox um originated. And then Jackie came into the picture about two and a half years into it.

Jacqueline

That's right. So I came from the other side of it. So if you are actually we're starting from a place of our entry point into curious Fox, if you're interested in our background before that, I encourage you to check out the Know thyself episode, because Effie and I were on the panel for that. And you get to hear a little bit about our how we grew up about our careers before curious Fox and the the incredible pivots and transitions that we needed from the corporate world and to what we're doing now. So check that out the Know thyself episode, how I entered into this work, so Fe noted that she was is a relationship coach, and my relationship with Fe started with her being my relationship coach, I probably like many of you out there was one of the folks that like three in the morning, after, you know, conflict with my partner are trying to figure out how we are going to navigate this conversation that we're beginning to have around opening up the relationship and what does that mean, and what does that look like. And my background just very briefly, is in change management. I have a master's degree in social work. And with a focus on community organization, I am really focused on data collection and operations, which is some of the work that I do with curious Fox. And so I'm essentially very nerdy. That's just all code to say, I'm super nerdy. And the stuff that I was reading felt a lot of sensationalized and felt like about drama, and jealousy and all that. And when I came upon Effies work, it felt like having an elevated conversation around. How do we enter into consensual non monogamy? And how do we explore that in a way that's thoughtful and empathetic and caring, and I was hooked. And so I set up a call, I think you were in Turkey at the time, we had a conversation, and I came from my first session, and then I brought my wife, and that was over two years ago, and we are in the best place that we've ever been. And that was a huge part to the work that we do would have been. And so then I went on my own and continued to live my life, and then came back to Fe and circle back because I do so my passion project is I'm also the founder of an organization called crafting your path, which inspires and provides tools and community to women who want to step off their prescribed path that has been laid out for them, and instead, create a path that is deeply aligned with who they are. And so my work outside of curious Fox is around helping particularly women, but I coach all folks all gender identities around how they want to move into careers, and lives that feel like them and step outside of what everyone has been saying that they should do. So I come to Fe and I say you've built this beautiful brand with amazing work. And I want to learn from that. And as we continue to talk, we realize that there is such a through line between the stuff that Fe is doing and the work that I was doing. And it kind of came to a head when curious Fox. And because I was a beneficiary of it. Because I came to workshops, I came to consider this the annual conference. And so I was on the other side as an audience member and really thrived from the connection and learning that happened in that space. And because our missions and our passion of what we're supposed to meant to do in this world was so aligned. And we realized that we need to work together. And so I come to be asking, you know, to give her some give me some feedback on my website for crafting your path and some thoughts and she circled back it was like, so I can give you feedback on that. And I will you want to come and like hang out and start talking about some curious Fox stuff. And that was about eight, nine months ago. And and so as a result, my work is to support the operations to support the implementation of the vision and really create structure. Yeah, what we're trying to do and grow it out.

Effy

Chief Fox of operations. And I think for me, that was a huge change. It's one of those like, you know, whatever legacy Curious Fox is gonna leave behind is definitely a marketer moment when Jackie walked into the cockpit into the, into the picture, we, you know, I find every day we noticed that our skills are so complementary, that we excel at areas that really one month aligned, push things forward. We also have similar attitudes. So we're go getters and we're driven and we're passionate and once we sort of put our minds to something Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna get there.

Jacqueline

Yeah, it's not uncommon for us to work across from each other for like three hours in a row both on our laptops like furiously trying to put words behind this thing that we are feeling and crafting and hearing from the community and slacking each other like midnight with no idea. Yeah, we want to do and Yeah, and so So honestly, that, as I mentioned, that was a through line across all of it. Right. The things that connected us and the things that inspired us to do this work is that we recognize that there is and has been a prescribed path for careers and for love and for life. And there's so many of us who just want to challenge the status quo, and design lives that feel more authentic to who we are, and don't didn't feel like we can have an opportunity to break outside of the box in a way that feels safe in a way that we can explore curiosity. And that really aligns with the mission of Curious Fox.

Effy

Absolutely, absolutely. And Curious, Fox is a community for those who challenge the status quo and love sex and relationships. Because society prescribes a one size fits all solution for all these aspects of our lives. And all the resources and support out there is aligned with that one prescription. I mean, think about it. Most of the data, the dating apps have limited gender orientation, relationships, relationship status options, right?

Jacqueline

Right. Some are male, female, and other

Effy

Yeah, still some of the popular ones. Other what is that? We use the bedroom as a euphemism for sex, like oh, how to get you know how to connect with your partner in the bedroom, you know, lace up your bed, yes, spice of your bedroom life and like I have more sex on my couch than in the bedroom? Why are we confining? Next to the bedroom, you know, and those are so subtle and so subliminal, but they're there, they're in our language, they're in the way that we address these things, I can see why you would want to, you know, have multiple ways of talking about your sex life. But the way what we've chosen is confining, you know, we're saying, you know, we're not saying your passion expression, or your, you know, desire, portfolio, or whatever, if we wanted to find other words, to say sex life, I'm all for that. But what we've chosen is restrictive,

Jacqueline

Right. It's, it's, it's putting your erotic self right away in the corner in the bedroom, right, and we're gonna leave it there, and then we're gonna close the door. And that part of ourselves is not going to introduce anyone.

Effy

Right, exactly. And these are, the prescriptions are so subtle, and they're universal, you know, I'm saying with the support stuff, like there was couples counseling, and there's couples therapy, you know, a lot of my clients are, you know, in non couple situations, you know, they're, they're triads, or quads. And they're like, couples therapy is not addressing my triad. You know, and I have friends who are in non traditional relationships, who are couples, therapists who say, our training does not cover anything other than the diet, it's just, we just don't have the tools. We don't have the exercises, we don't have the language. It's just not in the curriculum, you know.

Jacqueline

And even even in couples, I'm doing air quotes, couples therapy, the the, the way in which they approach the work is about staying together, and making things work and fixing things. And sometimes that's not the way and sometimes about expansion or open or transitioning out of that relationship and just looking at different ways that relationships can exist right outside of the nuclear family.

Effy

Absolutely, absolutely. It's, again, with the sort of prescription that get that just resonates through all these different areas, rather than what we were a lot of a lot of bad, which is, which is creative problem solving, like being creative in line with what's what's coming up coming up for you, rather than like, squeezing ourselves into this, like one size fits all solution for sure.

Jacqueline

Particularly because statistically, it's showing that the prescription and the norm is not working

Effy

is not working for everyone, you know, and by the way, if it's working for you, yes, we celebrate you, we salute you, we love you.

Jacqueline

I am married and joyful. So I shouldn't say yes, yes. And it isn't a relationship and a marriage that we have defined and crafted what that looks like for us, right? So we haven't just done a default of oh, this is what comes along with relationship and marriage. And so now that's what we're gonna do. We spend a lot of time with Fe some of that time being thoughtful about what that means for us.

Effy

Right. Right. Right. Right. And, and it looks like it's about half of us actually, because this Stickley, I believe the numbers are in the United States alone. 45% of first marriages end in divorce. And then it's actually downhill from there. And then the statistics go up. And I think we looked at something like 79% of third marriages are out, you know,

Jacqueline

which is crazy. So we'll get you started a lesson at that point.

Effy

Yeah. Um, and to me, that indicates the structure isn't serving, right. You know, like, if you try and get again over and over again, by the third time, it's still failing. Like that prescription isn't working for you.

Jacqueline

Right. Right. Right. Right. And what it what is it that there potentially is a divorce every 36 seconds. Yeah, based on those numbers totally, like divorce. Divorce. And it's, and you know, we're joking about it, but honestly, it's sad. I both of us, both Effie and I came from spaces where we did not think that we were good at relationships. So there was something was wrong with us and it wasn't on us. It was the fact that we were trying to fit ourselves into particular prescribed mold that just didn't fit us. And so curious Fox is about it's not even about trying to convince you to do some Think different. It's the opposite of that. It's creating spaces where you could be curious just to see what other opportunities exist right outside of that one prescribed path.

Effy

Right? Right, right, because we also noticed that there were no really standout platforms or resources, or this one place that you can get to then have resources around this stuff, right. And what was out there sometimes fell either niche, or political or alternative, or Clicky. It was so removed from accessible, that it wasn't really serving. It wasn't really serving on mass, which was I think, what was needed. And again, half of almost half of millennials have said, they're not going to end up in a monogamous relationship.

Jacqueline

Right, so that's what's interesting, right? So half of people were getting divorced, half of millennials are saying they want open relationships. And there wasn't and isn't great platforms for people to get information about what that looks like how to navigate through that. Well, outside of just saying that you're open, or you want to try. How do you do that in a way that's rooted in information? Yeah, it's rooted in support for clarity.

Effy

Yeah. And I think that's exactly why the first curious Fox were packed. Yeah. You know, that people knew. And there was there wasn't there wasn't anything. So anything that popped up and said, We'll support you a little bit? Who will like Yes, please.

Jacqueline

Right. Right. We've been having I will tell you guys more about this in a little bit. But we've been having conversations with folks in other states, we want to bring curious Fox to them. And one of the last conversations we were having somebody was saying, you know, their parties here, their kink parties, and their socials. And there's all these places for us to gather together and hang out. But there aren't places for us to talk about the non fun side of this stuff. How do you work things through? How do you have the conversation about how to, and then we're like, those are the things that we want to get into is like the how to write this life well

Effy

Right. Right. Exactly. Exactly. And, and so curious, Fox is for those of us that aren't thriving on this prescription, and actively seeking healthy options, in line with the way we do thrive, right, those resources, those houses. And that's where the the Learn connect, drive comes into the equation, which is our kind of guiding structure, if you will, when knowledge is power, you know that, and that's the Learn part of it all is all about increasing our knowledge base, right? And not only, I mean, just knowledge around all the different ways of loving, connecting and living, not only for execution, but also for inspiration and permission. So it's not the idea is not that everything that we we put out there is for you, it's something that you need to do immediately. It's it's, you know, if it's resonating with you, great, hopefully, it'll give you the the how tos and the guys to do it in your life. But it's also about inspiration and permission, right? It's about knowing all the different options that you have out there. So you can be inspired, right? So you can, it's like if you think about it, you can watch the you know, Paris Fashion Week, doesn't mean you got to go around the gowns, but I'll give you some ideas on like, how you want to figure out what you want to wear, right? So some of it is that and some of it is permission, like if someone's if someone's telling the story, and there's a moment for you when you go, Oh, me too, right? That's, that's permission, that's you going I'm not alone. I'm not weird. I'm not creepy. I'm not an outsider. There are people here who are talking about similar stories or similar desires or similar struggles. That's your permission to go ahead. And then And then step into your most authentic self in that way

Jacqueline

is to realize what's possible. I remember Effie talking about F, he lives with her partner with one partner and another partner and their partner lived downstairs. And so they're all in the same house. And I remember hearing that saying, We that's possible, like that's a thing. And then it's just like, yeah, and then on Sundays, we'll have brunch together. I'm like, that's a thing. And that just it was it felt like permission and inspiration like, Oh, I didn't even know that was possible. And if that's possible for you, then that's possible for me. And then that's something that just like expanded out what I thought was possible for myself and the relationship world and the way that I live and, and so I feel like, you know, we hear consistently from folks at each of our events that that that's, that's the real gift of these things, right is hearing and being inspired and saying, not only like, wow, me too, yes, I'm feeling that but like we got to it started off with relationships, right? You started to have these clients who you're hearing similar themes, you start this event, people keep coming, then it starts to get bigger than that. Because folks were feeling isolated. And you said, you know, wrapped up in anxiety around rations in their head. Yeah. As needed some need in some place where they didn't feel shame, for sure.

Effy

Yeah. And absolutely, like everybody was asking for resources. And then I would give them list of books and podcasts. and websites to go to, and there was still a disconnect, there was still a disconnect. They were, they were immersing themselves in these in these resources, essentially wrapped up in anxiety and, and with a head full of questions and nobody else because a lot of the time, we also, you know, our family and our friends when we decided to, you know, move away from the status quo, become worried, and they don't always understand, or they can't even relate to us anymore. So it becomes even more isolating.

Jacqueline

So, and that's what stops many of us from changing is we are meant to be in community, we're built for community. And when the community around us send very clear messages around what are the values of that community, and what are the rules of engagement to stay in that community, if we start to feel like we need to do something different, then our fear around losing community and losing human contact and connection and love prevents us sometimes from being who we are. And there are many folks who I've met and worked with as a coach who would rather be inauthentic together than be authentic alone. And part of this work is creating community where, and he talks about this a lot, which I think is beautiful around changing the noise around you where the noise then is more complimentary to who you actually are. And you find that you can have community and contact with folks who are like minded, and who can support you in bringing some of those folks in your tribe, you know, understanding who you are, right? Not leaving your tribe behind to tunes for a new community, but how do you integrate who you are into all these spaces?

Effy

Right? Absolutely, absolutely. And this is the Connect part of it, um, the Connect part of learning connects by right, the idea is that we all learn all these, you know, important wisdom and teachings, and skills and tools together. And you know, the spaces that we create are with always connection in mind, right, we always have social time built in, we always have these little things that really aim to make sure that people connect, you know, like, one of the things that Jackie did is, you know, the first month that she came in, she had we designed our name tags, right. And now it was just more than just my name is right, we have a couple of poems that really, you know, give the neck of the other person a bit of an insight, right? It's true.

Jacqueline

So think about that. So if you're out there, and you are listening to this, and you are in the midst of trying to figure out what you want, and who you are, and are new to kind of exploring a few things that we talked about that might resonate with you is first, find places where you can get inspiration. So look for content and for stories and listen to the podcast, read some of the articles, just go out there and find things that align with who you are so that you can have that yes, me to kind of moment. Maybe find some concrete things to do next of like, okay, let me try this. Let me try that and create some space for you just to try and explore do some data collection like that didn't work by like, No, that wasn't me like, Okay, well, maybe this is and then try to find some community try to find some spaces where the noise is different. And you can ask questions and feel safe in that space. And then what happened, right, so it started with, with that one event, and then became more events. And then it was a panel discussion. And then it was soirees. And then of course, because it definitely became an annual conference. And then people outside of New York started to say we want this to. And so then it was a live stream of the events that were happening, which by the way, is available on Patreon. So if you're a Patreon member, you have access to all of the workshops that we have recorded, and you can get from there. And then the podcast episodes. Right. And so we started to record this year, what was happening in the room, and the first podcast recorded had 470 listeners. Yeah, we were like, let's record it and see what happened. Yeah, 470 people were like, Yes, please. Yeah, yeah. And we did one on relationship anarchy that had like, 547 people were listening to it.

Effy

I mean, these are not, no big numbers for for big podcasts. But for us, like we were expecting, like five because also for a long time, people have seen our topics and heard people who've been talking about it and saying, We can't be in the room for various reasons schedules don't line up, we're out of town. You know, we don't have this in our, you know, in our, in our neighborhoods, you know, like, how do we get access and those rooms, we try to have a certain type of dynamic in the room so that people can share authentically and bravely and also, we curate the space for curiosity and questions and dialogue. So we have to be mindful about how do we then contain that space and and record that space? So for a long time, we scratch our heads like how do we do this? How Do this and then we decided why don't we try a podcast? Why don't we audio record? And then this will give people access but more chances of anonymity if needed. And, you know, it was really for a handful of people that were asking, really, I was expecting, like, if we're gonna hit double digits of listeners like 10. I was like, great. It's worth it. You know, keep going. But yeah, hundreds.

Jacqueline

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that. And we've been interesting too, is that now we're starting to get calls. We just had call from someone in San Francisco and Chicago. And we're talking to folks in California about bringing curious Fox, they're creating little foxholes kind of all around the country, which is fantastic. And that's, that's coming from this podcast, people are listening and saying, how do we do this too? Right? Do we start these kinds of communities? Have these kinds of events create this feeling that you've been able to create in New York? And how do we spread that and so if you're out there and interested in bringing this work to your town, we are building like our foxhole kits, and working on how to support folks who want to lead this work in other places. And you know, we can move you into all the curious Fox stuff so that you can create your your curious boxes, and all these different places. And our audience continues to grow, we have 1000s of people come to our events now. Hundreds that are listening to this newborn podcast. And we it's I mean, we're at a place where we're like outgrowing our space, we are so grateful to the new women's space here in Brooklyn, New York, that has been our home for a long time. And we continue to go there and do many of our workshops, but we are growing out of that space. So call to action. Anybody out there who has event spaces and venues in any of the boroughs in New York, we need space for shared space for workshops, we need space for our parties. One of our last events, how many people were there, we had a flirt night, we did a love languages, event and over 100 Yeah, hundreds of people were coming and we just going at it, we're bursting at the seams. So if you're out there speaking up, I'm just gonna start throwing if you're an event planner, and marketing, if you're in social media and media entertainment, if you're in any of those worlds, give us a call reach out to us,

Effy

Because here's the thing in some people always told me oh, you know, curious, Fox looks so professional, you know, everything looks so professional, which is it takes an enormous amount of effort, because we're essentially it's, it's some it's our fate, you know, we call them favors, and we borrow equipment, and we, you know, really piece it together and, and we want to do service to our community. So we, you know, we do our absolute best to bring, bring everything out as professional as possible. But the truth is, behind the scenes, it's really just us piecing it together, asking, you know, our friends to help us, you know, the first curious Fox podcast was recorded by my partner who has a background in audio tech, in theater, so and we borrowed a bunch of the equipment from his theater troupe, to just to see if it's gonna even work, you know, and for a while we bought equipment every time we needed to record something. And then we would like these crates of things would arrive. And then we had to pack and send everything back. And it was scary, because it was like expensive equipment that we're borrowing. There were so many wires, I was like, I don't know where any of these things go. And like we have a vision, but we certainly not pros at podcast producing.

Jacqueline

Which, by the way, any pros at podcast producing? And please let me say. So. Ben is somebody who also has been fantastic and volunteering and supporting us in doing the podcast work. And, you know, as he pointed out, we have extended all fevers that we possibly can from all of the people in our network. But if there are folks out there, yeah, podcast producing and editing, like we hear

Effy

Absolutely.

Jacqueline

It's true. And honestly, this podcast, we were joking about it. But it's important to us because it is giving us an opportunity to change the noise. We keep saying that over and over because it is just so true. We make decisions rooted in the noise that is around us and what we believe is possible. And Effie and I are deeply committed to changing the noise and helping people see all that is possible and more than possible, impossible that we haven't even identified. I mean, part of part of what we are thrilled about in this is that we do these panel discussions, we have these conversations between f&i that, like you're hearing now, and we're starting to do interviews with folks who are inspiring us to see what is possible, and ways of living that are beyond what we thought and ways in which people have grit and resilience and curiosity. And yeah, I mean, so we are deeply inspired by these conversations that we're having and thrilled to be sharing that out. And one more help around doing that well.

Effy

Right, right. And we find actually that surprisingly, when we do ask for help, help kind of does arrive sometimes magically, you know, oh, Um, we were you know, we felt very strongly about this, this podcast, as Jackie mentioned, and we started applying for grants and the grounds that not only was giving us money and equipment, but also some training around it, right, because we were like, We don't know what you're doing. And unfortunately, it was competitive. It was competitions are we getting in competitions? You know, we didn't, we didn't get in, we didn't get into the programs that we apply to. And, you know, there was a moment of like, oh, what's happening, you know, sad face? And then as a shock and horror and shock and horror? Yeah. It was amazing. Um, yeah. And magically, the stuff that we needed appeared a long time curious, Fox follower, wrote to us and said, you know, what, I have a trunk, literally a trunk full of equipment. For Podcasting. I don't use it anymore. Would you like it? We were shocked. It's like, if you think about things are lining it's like, what is what is the

Jacqueline

Harry Potter trunk filled and gorgeous trunk? Yeah, filled with every single thing one would need for a podcast,

Effy

exactly. All the adapters, all the wires, all the microphones, everything, and we no longer need to borrow things, you know, in fact, we're now lending our equipment to people who are, you know, starting out, you know, pay it forward. So, you know, every now and then there's these, you know, amazing things happen, which we like to take, as a sign that we're on the right path, and we're doing the right thing.

Jacqueline

So that's why we continue to put things out into the universe. That's why we're saying venue, podcast producers, I'm gonna add to that web, web folks. Right. So we, you know, we're talking about content and changing the noise. And part of the way in which we want to do that, in curious Fox is opportunities for people to read, to listen, to watch and to attend. And we are not there yet, in producing and curating all of the content in all those different areas, I think we're trying to grow the team slowly. So that we can be at a place where we are creating the content where you can read and listen and watch and attend. But along the way, like we're trying to slowly build that. And part of that is we have this grand vision for this website, that will really be a platform and hub for all this information that you can go on, you know, appropriate for work, you can go into these places this website, and see all this information that we're talking about here. And, and people's stories and articles and, and quizzes and resources and worksheets and all these events, that's curated from created by us and our team and the experts that we work with, but also curated from from experts globally around challenging the status quo and love, sex and relationships. And so, of course, with everything else, we need funding and expertise, right. And so that's been the challenge with our website, if you go on there, right now, depending on when you look at, listen, look and listen to this. Hopefully, when you do into the future, if you're listening in the future, you're gonna go on a website, it's gonna be amazing. But right now, it's a work in progress. And so, you know, we continue to need resources around building this website platform that we are just so excited about, like we can picture it and are yes,

Effy

Yes, very clear in my head. Yeah. And the idea is exactly what Jackie said. And going back to this, you know, we all learn, absorb information differently. And that's why the idea of like things, you can read things you can watch things you can listen to, and also things like to attend like online webinars, online conferences, as well as the real life stuff, right? So we are very clear on what this amazing hub is going to look like. And we're now trying to make it happen. We're trying to find support around the building and making it happen. Also expertise around branding and marketing and sort of how do we then get it out into the world and in front of people? How do we break through the you know, what we already have built and grow it and make it bigger? So we really need anybody that can support us for marketing and web development and all the things?

Jacqueline

Yeah, all the things. And part of part of that is I mentioned that, you know, we're starting to think about and have conversations with folks about bringing the curious Fox works to other places. And so we are super excited about that we're going to be traveling soon and doing events and other locations and starting to expand the work. And so we're gonna be creating these like foxhole kits, like I said, around how to do these in other places, but we wouldn't need so much of it prepared if it lived online, somewhere. And the other thing I think that I don't know if we've mentioned maybe a little bit is that we do an annual conference called consider this that's going to be coming up in November, so you'll be getting more information soon. And it's super exciting. It's like a TED Talk like event where you have different speakers that come and essentially the vision of it is that you go and you listen and we just invite you to Consider this, consider this as a possibility as an option as a way of thinking. So we've a lot of topics that we've been planning out.

Effy

Yeah. You know, with the aim of the game is the limitations that consider this. And if it doesn't resonate with you, great. If it does, if it resonates with you, great, if it doesn't resonate with you, the hope is that you now learn something that will allow you to understand and accept somebody else. And, and not to sort of, hopefully, once you've considered it, and you're being, you know, given the information around that, then it's like, oh, it's not for me, but I can totally understand why it resonates with other people. Right? The there's a further mission beyond education is to unite to really get people to understand the other side of things, and it might not be for you, but it might be for other people. And the topics this year were, we had an awesome brainstorming session where we were like, what about this? What about this, and we came up with the use of daddy in the erotic space. I'm definitely hearing more and more people bring us

Jacqueline

a lot of Daddy controversy.

Effy

Yeah, yeah, it's even happening, and like in the most mainstream places, like I'm seeing it referred to or like used in jokes. And I'm like, huh, we should talk about that really should talk about what that is. The origins of Daddy exactly used

Jacqueline

in the erotic space outside of in the bedroom.

Effy

In the bedroom. Exactly. Um, and on the other topic is like, if not fidelity, then what? Right, so we, we are a lot of the conversations around non monogamy. And, and historically fidelity is what defines relationships. So if we're moving away from that, if we're saying, if we're saying, well, fidelity doesn't define relationships anymore, then then what does this talk about that we want to cover feminism's impact on the rise of non monogamy? It there's definitely a correlation. So we want to understand how it all you know, whole lines up and how it's impacting one another. We want to cover we, you know, we want to cover modern dating. Beyond the apps, you know, like, how, you know, how do they develop? How do we date these days? Is it the best way?

Jacqueline

It's true... If you're in the if you're in a dating mindset right now, and you haven't already, you can listen to our last podcast episode, which was actually all about dating, and apps. And we worked with Ben who we said, supported us and in our podcasting around his daily life, and so you should check that out. That's funny.

Effy

Um, also, you know, something that I'm really interested in this idea of, from nuclear family, to micro community, you know, as people are challenging the status quo and love sex and relationships, that that is resonating out to other areas of their lives. And obviously, then family is interconnected with that, right? Often relationships result in family. But if we're moving outside of that, that traditional, you know, mom, dad into point for kids, we're growing out of that, I'm interested in looking at those formations as micro communities, and maybe redefining family a little bit for those. It makes sense.

Jacqueline

It's true at this month, being family, we've been talking and thinking about chosen family versus, you know, birth family, if you will, and what does that look like, and that may not include children that may include, you know, for babies, and for some and and for those that do have children, we have been meeting more and more relationship constructs, where there's a number of people that are it's literally a village raising a child. There's literally one of the events that we we last had, there was a for folks who are in a larger community of loving relationship. And the four were all watching this this particular child like navigate the space and taking care of them. And it was pretty it was pretty amazing to watch.

Effy

Yeah. And we have a we have a baby coming. So yes, that's my, one of my partner's wife, Beth is pregnant. And we're getting a baby. Hopefully, if all goes well, all will go well. In January, so yeah, first baby in our little micro community. Yeah,

Jacqueline

French will include the baby now. Yes. The baby. Yeah. Yeah, there's a few different so there's that we're thinking about sex is our sex parties, the new cocktail party. All this is the we're seeing now with censorship censoring the sexy and social media, we definitely want to have conversations around that. There's ideas around how porn is impacting sexuality. And then we've been talking more and more about what's interesting in in some of our work, we work with folks of all identities and all generations, and part of the conversation that we're hearing is, and this is how we've titled it in the moment, queer, vegan and poly labeling a generation and so all of the ways in which now there is this push and pull between people wanting to be authentic and not be described and not be labeled. But then there's also all these labels.

Effy

Yeah, for sure. There's like a ton of labels for generation that doesn't want to be defined. I think there's definitely Need something now? You know, like, why does that juxtapositions keep coming out?

Jacqueline

Yeah. So the curious curious Fox and consider this is all about meeting the needs of the community. So we are sharing this, you're listening in on our visioning session. Because if this stuff resonates with you, we want to hear that, because we want to make sure that we're crafting things in a programming that that meets your need. And if you're like, actually, that's great. But there's this other thing that's really important that you guys did not mention, you need a workshop on that you got to add a speaker to, and please let us know, that's the point of this is we want you to we want to hear what you're saying. So if you want to get involved in this work, if you know, speakers of thought leaders or educators or writers or facilitators, we want to know them too, for sure. Introduce them. And if you're a sponsor, and you got some food, drinks, toys, or books, or experiences or anything like that, and you want to expand your audience and your reach, let us know. So you gonna be involved.

Effy

Yeah, we already have some amazing brands, and amazing brands and people, individuals that support us, and we're going to mention them, we're going to mention them, the bean, that group come and join our gang, you know, we we have this awesome community that is rare to hear and interested. And we really want to align ourselves with other organizations, Rand's projects, that that are on the same mission, like we know, we're not alone. We really want to align all these and there's, there's power in being united. And we want to, we want to hear, we want to hear from you. How, you know, how can we help? Can we collaborate? Like that's, this is one of my, you know, one of my go to questions, you know, I'll meet people and I hear this story. And then it's always in the back of my mind, I'm like, can you collaborate?

Jacqueline

No, so good. So just so you know, so our sense of our roles, she's like, the classic, perfect founder, CEO of like, she's good at the networking and connecting and bringing people together, and I'm good at operationalizing. So I like send Effie out into the world, she'll come back with like, 30 business cards, and all these people that we need to talk to, and I figure out, like how to help plug them in.

Effy

Yeah, and it's, that's amazing, I think, knowing that Jackie is there to to, like, have my back and to make sure that I'm not gonna embarrass myself in front of these people. It's, it's definitely gives me the freedom to like be out there and be creative and meet people. And as I said, like, just always in the back of my head, like, can we collaborate? What can we do? What can we? How can we align our missions and our visions? And, and this is another version, it's another call of that, like, if you're listening, and you're you hear what we do? You like what we do, it resonates with you, it hits a note that you're going me too, or, or I want to get involved or oh my god, that's so interesting. Even if you don't know what a collaboration can look like, reach out, we'll figure it out. I'll figure it out. Yeah.

Jacqueline

I mean, it would be becoming a Patreon member, radio, Patreon. We're in the midst of a fundraising campaign right now trying to have more donors. Because again, right now, just so you know, and I think you're clear, this is Fe and I, and like a group of folks that we've kind of pulled together who believe in this work, and this mission, this is not our full time job. This is the work that we do, because we really care about it, and it packs us and we know that it makes a difference. And so via Patreon folks give, you know, $20 a month, which is we were saying like for, you know, a fancy cup of coffee every week, yeah, and pour a cup of coffee a month. And it really makes a huge difference. So there's that. But again, if you're if you're in this, and you're just trying to figure out your own path through this, there are people out there and they're their their communities, their groups, their individuals who are pushing back on the prescription and saying there are other ways, and we're trying to create more access for you. And so we want to hear from you are on what you need to feel supported. So you don't feel alone in this. And if you are at a place in your life, in your relationship where you can give more you have a little bit more capacity, you're not as in the struggle on your leg, want to get back, we're there for you too, because we need help for sure. But it's so I mean, people come we had a volunteer that came with us last week or earlier the week I'm losing students of my days, and they were just helping us like sort out our files and things like that. And we just had such rich, amazing conversation. She texted me yesterday and was like, I need to come back. It's like how like, who has these conversations during the day? Like who's talking about, you know, oppression and who's talking about, you know, socializing norms and breaking past norms and like, how are these conversations that you're allowed to have at work during the day and so, yeah, I feel really grateful

Effy

you to me too, and you sort of talked about how it's not our full time job. I don't know. I would love for it to be our full time job. It would be great to sort of immerse at least I should speak for myself. That is you know, I'd love for this to be You know, the main focus, and I think that's aim of the game like it is to to hopefully find enough resources find enough interest that this book this this project does this work becomes much bigger and much, much, much more relevant. It's very relevant, I should say, much more known and bigger and an expanded enough. So that it, you know it? I don't know, I'd like it to be the focus of my work.

Jacqueline

yeah, yeah, it was at dinner with my partner, and a few weeks back, and the couple behind us was having an argument about being open. And they you know, and I think it sounded like it was a male, female dynamic. And the guy was saying, you have found more women that you're with, and, and I'm not, and I thought I was gonna be involved with them. And I'm not and like, that's not what I thought was gonna happen. And like, what am I getting out of this? And she was like, you knew who I was in the beginning? And can I only see other women when you're there. And they were having an I really want to, like pass by and like, just slip like a curious, like, guard, they won't be like, there are people out there. But it's true, more and more as you like, we there's that saying that once something is in your mind, you see it everywhere. Like if you decide like, oh, I want that pair of shoes, or I want that car, like you start to see that thing everywhere. I'm starting to hear and see more folks who are in the struggle around trying to either fit themselves into the box, or trying to expand out of that box, but not really knowing how to do that. And it's true. I just want to walk around like stickers, or something and say like, you're not alone. You're not alone. Yeah, yeah.

Effy

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's where I think that's, you know, we always as we do these, you know, Vision sessions, we go back and, you know, all the things that we always come back to make sense, right, learn, connect, thrive, is through connection through like, knowing you're not alone. Hopefully, we're going to thrive as a community as a as a group. And I think part of us trying to get the get the word out is that the more we connected, the more people that we know who are in it with us, the more that the chances of us thriving is higher.

Jacqueline

Yeah. And authentic connection, not Instagram connection. Follow us on Instagram. Yeah, here's foxes, Facebook, Instagram, Patreon. But no, but beyond that, because I you know, I was recently having a conversation with somebody else who was saying, you know, I'm really in the struggle, and I'm starting to feel really jealous. And you know, I don't want to, and I'm just like, an, and I was like, no, no, that totally makes sense. I feel all the time. And they're like, wait, you feel that to me? Yes, as a human person, I feel those things too. But I think that we are so used to now seeing people on the other end of the transition, like seeing people outside the struggle or seeing the Instagram version of people, that when we get together and have real real conversations around how to kind of just live out right now. So Effie and I, in September, we're going to be doing an event where we're going to be talking about career transitions, and, you know, finding and building careers that aligned with who you are. And both of us came from the corporate world. And so we had to do a lot of navigating out of that space to find the spaces that felt right for us. And so this idea goes beyond just relationships and non monogamy it goes into how do you really get in tune with who you are and what you want, and then craft a life around that. And that is incredibly difficult to do. And it feels really lonely, when you look around. And it looks like everybody's doing really well. And thriving, either thriving in the box, or have magically found some like, you know, they're a vlogger. And they travel the world and all this and you're like, how the hell did you do that? Right. And so like,

Effy

we want to have some real actual conversations about Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think the connection, I think, instead of connecting on what we're doing, I think the aim of the game for curious Fox, and it's in connection on the Y net, we do, we want to find our authentic lies are authentic ways of loving, and relating and living. And that is what connects us not what we've chosen that to be, right. So just because you know, if one person chooses a non monogamous path, and the other one chooses a monogamous path, that's not the point of connection, the connection is those people have actively designed their lives or making decisions every day, in line with their own truth. And in some, in some cases, having to resist the status quo, because it doesn't fit them. And I think that's where the connection points. That's what we mean about the authentic connection, that in in the process of designing our lives, and dedication to that dedication to authenticity, and, and design is where we are connected. Yes and support one another.

Jacqueline

I love that you said that because I think it's about beyond not having judgment around whatever decisions anybody is making. I think it's important for us to nuttin to name. We are not advocating for non monogamy. We're not advocating for a particular path. I remember when I first transitioned out of my corporate life and start Did my own business in the beginning, I was home, doing all the domestic things all the time, and the dishes and the laundry and the this and that, and I had my own stigma and judgment around that. Now there would be a time in a generation where me trying to get back into the workforce would have been, you know, criticize, and I was criticizing myself for doing the opposite, and really has to give empathy around myself that know that is a beautiful choice to want to be home and take care of your family, where it's a beautiful choice to do both and take care of family and work. And it's a beautiful choice to not until, like, all of those are beautiful choices. And it really just matters, which particular choice fits for you which particular option fits with who you are. And I think that's what this work is about, is allowing yourself to be curious enough, and find safe spaces where you can learn all the things that are possible, right? Choose whichever one works,

Effy

right, exactly. And do the work, do the work, do the work. It's not easy. It's not it's not supposed to just come down from heavens, you know, it's this idea of, you know, going back to relationships, this idea of that you search high and low, you overcome obstacles, and then you find the one, and then you live happily ever after. Narrative is false. It's a myth. It's not real. You don't just live happily ever after it is hard work. Relationships are hard work. There needs to be thought and, and active design and create a process around relationships. And it's an ongoing practice. I think a relationship is a practice, you have to keep remembering why you're there, what you're trying to create in the world. And I think doing that, hopefully, with a community of people, and keep being connected to that, that you just don't, you know, don't take it for granted. And you keep working on it is the only way to have relationships.

Jacqueline

Yeah. And, you know, speaking of relationships, I think I in the spirit of gratitude and thinking with the theme of family, like, I feel so grateful for the family, the curious Fox family that we have built, and all of these people who have come to support us and donate their skills and their time. You know, Thomas, who, who, as he mentioned, who take time out of his day, who set up literally set up the equipment that we're using right now, this conversation just before he left for the set, or like putting headphones on us as he's walking running out the door. Thomas has been amazing. Ben has been fantastic again and giving us time and expertise around the podcasting. Marco, who just did a post on Instagram, who is our photographer, is one of those folks who came to an event. And after the event was like, This is great. I want to take pictures. Like yes, you should. And then like ever since comes to every event and takes pictures and is our official photographer. And it's fantastic. And dev who did the music for our podcast and Mustafa, the Who's the person who who magically showed up with this Harry Potter box, podcast equipment, and Peter who recently just did a generous donation towards our costs. And we have so many volunteers, Alexis and Jessica and Giselle and Michael and so many other folks who come and dedicate, you know, almost every event come and set up and break down all this stuff, the new women's space, our sponsors, Dame and pleasure chests, and shag and new women's space for hosting us. And of course, our Patreon members,

Effy

for sure, yeah. It's nice to kind of go through this exercise and sort of looking at really thinking about who we want to thank because also, well, first and foremost, we are grateful. And we can never say that enough. I think these people should hear it from us over and over again. The other thing is, I think, a little you know, maybe self serving, but just to remind us that we're not alone. Yeah, that these people were grateful because they're there with us, and they support us and they're part of the team and they step up sometimes got dragged in here sometimes get dragged in.

Jacqueline

Right? If you date us you will probably

Effy

come to part of the package. One day One volunteer

Jacqueline

to I'm thinking about one of our volunteers was incredible. Giselle, like, reached out it's one of our events, I don't remember and said, Hey, normally you I sent out an email saying you need volunteers. I didn't get that email this time. But I'm going to show up because I'm gonna assume you need volunteers and we just in the midst of staffing transition to stuff we didn't do that. And we're like, yes, you need to stand up the door and check people in and like welcome people. And like they, I mean, I'm so grateful

Effy

for people, um, and you know, when when, you know, it's and we need all that we need. And and we need more. Yeah, because we do want to grow this work, because we do want to do better because we want to learn and we do have a big vision and we've shared some of it here today. And it's it's so much more detailed. And we have a very clear roadmap. It's an we're now at a stage of, of, of executing, which which, by the way, just a personal note, I couldn't I'll do my own. One of the reasons why we have such a detailed roadmap is Jackie who just like, came in with her color.

Jacqueline

Lift her paper.

Effy

And it's like, okay, I see your vision. Let me break it down. How am I going to make it happen?

Jacqueline

Because it was I mean, there was great foundation you're gonna like now listen in on our love fest, because it was grateful nation. I mean, this is I was put I have personally been impacted by the magic of not feeling alone and, and getting concrete tools. And again, just like what felt like well timed inspiration to help me that helped me beyond my relationship. It helped me really think about the way in which I could craft my entire life and design an entire life. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that.

Effy

You're welcome. No, thank you. Thank you. You have no idea. Thank you. It doesn't, you know, I don't wake up anxious anymore. Which is great.

Jacqueline

But if we get that other help, sometimes we get angry. We're like, Wait, did we send that that ticket Taylor announcement now? There's other things we get anxious about? But yeah, you know, if you want to be part of this love fest, and this journey, I think one of the things that we will say Yeah, exactly. It has been it's been a long journey. And yet we still feel like we're just getting started. And it's really possible. And you know, I think what's what's amazing is like, we're getting close to the possible, like we're getting like you said, like we there's a plan. They're like, Oh, we're almost at that moment. And part of the challenge of that is just its capacity. And so if you want to be involved in the visioning and because ultimately this is about you, and we're trying to serve this community, and it's about you and us and finding joy and authenticity together. So if you have I think what do we mentioned if you do venues and and brand and event marketing and social media, podcast producing and editing and, and website funding and speakers and sponsors and when merchandise people keep saying they want to where the fuck yeah, you are involved in merchandising and can help us get the fox in some bags. You know, and of course, I mean, just keep listening. Keep BE LIKE US on Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcast, share with friends, and keep coming back to indulge your curiosity.

Effy

So thank you for tuning in for our visioning session. We're so we're so excited to share this with you.

Jacqueline

It was it's so funny cuz this is origin story, slash visioning session. Yeah. Slash cool to the community. For sure. It's for us. It's like we're gonna do one thing, but actually 10 things...

Effy

We snuck in evangelising. But yeah, we thank you. Thank you for listening. For those who've been listening to us for a while. Thank you so much for keeping up with us. For those of you who are new, I hope you're inspired to check out all the other episodes. We mentioned a couple in this one. Yeah, keep listening. Yeah. And that's it. Stay curious. Stay curious. Curious Fox podcast is not and will never be the final word on any topic. We solely aim to encourage curiosity and provide a space for exploration through connection and story. We encourage you to listen with an open and curious mind. And we'll look forward to your feedback. Stay curious friends. Stay curious, curious curious. Thank you. Stay curious.

Still Curios?